Aruban Media Faults FBI: Calls Americans “Suspects”

By
July 6, 2005

Caribseek Aruba News | Stepfather threatens to release more information, Father refuses to cooperate with investigators – A.M. Digital.

Over the week-end local authorities decided to start “talking” to some members of the family and amongst others decided to talk to Natalee’s father. He became very furious about this and at certain moment decided to leave the table and abandon the police precinct. He did not agree with the form in which he was “attacked”. As such the father refused to cooperate in answering questions that were put to him by the investigating team.

In the meantime we could hear and see on CNN how the step father, mr. Twitty, threatened to disclose damaging information if one or more of the suspects is released. He did not wish to say anything else but we can see here that this person has started to threaten the Aruba authorities and question the country’s judicial system. This is not acceptable.

For what the suspects in the USA are concerned – we cannot qualify them otherwise – we think the FBI has work to do to find out if they really wish to cooperate to bring this case to an end. By the way, on the FBI website Natalee Holloway does not appear as a missing person.

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Comments:
  1. harry says:

    We Americans should take these Aruban criticisms seriously. Clearly, the adventure into prosecuting the three kids is going nowhere. If we ever want to find Natalee, we need to start looking into the people whom were closest to her.

  2. Canadian Girl says:

    Is this the new tactic now???
    Are they really suggesting that her family who was not even on the island had something to do with this???
    That is the most disgusting and vile thing I have ever heard.
    Yea, it’s much more reasonable to think this devastated family who were not on the island are resposible as opposed to the guy sitting in jail spewing lies who was the last to see her!!!

  3. calisat says:

    I am just confused….first…why is natalees real dad never on tv with ehr mom? why do they never appear together? also I keep hearing beth and her husband talk about “shocking” information they have about this case and things they know but they keep sayign they can’t talk about it……frankly this infuriates me…….it can’t compromise the investigation which is already so messed up it is ridiculous…..it is like the aruba police threatened them if they tal;k they will stop looking for natalee…if they are even looking for her….something very suspicious is going on in my eyes……none of this makes sense and clearly aruba is not looking to solve this case just cover it up

  4. harry says:

    Canadian Girl:
    The FBI has not done their job!

  5. wreck says:

    Wait for the three days inwhich appeals can be made before you see the Twittys “unleash hell.”

  6. calista says:

    why is natalee not listed on the fbi missing person list? this all just wrong wrong wrong

  7. wreck says:

    “why is natalee not listed on the fbi missing person list? this all just wrong wrong wrong”
    –calista
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Because MAYBE the FBI knows where she is at and can’t recover/retrieve her.

  8. mrs. MojoRisin' says:

    Email your disgust for this article to the website’s owners:
    ontargetmarketing@caribseek.com

  9. TS says:

    I just don’t understand why they were questioning HIM??? This case is really troubling in more ways than one. But as hard as it surely must have been, Jug probably should have kept his cool. As the saying goes, “you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.” But honestly, I probably would have lost my cool, too. This poor family has been going through hell for over a month. We all have our breaking point.

  10. sleuth says:

    Natalee’s father, Dave Holloway, was on the other night and said he was leaving Aruba to spend the holiday with his children. I have seen him with his ex-wife, and saw an interview that said that both families got along pretty well. Don’t know if that means he is back yet, or even if he was coming back. Maybe it depends on what is happening or not.
    Arubans protesting the American press are crucifying their future. At least no one else should be fooled into letting their children loose on such a corrupt place. Aruba reminds me of the snake devouring its own tail.

  11. Gale says:

    Natalee’s mom and dad are divorced and both have remarried, so it’s not odd that they don’t appear on tv together.
    harry,
    have ya been following this case long? Her family was in THE STATES when she went missing!

  12. BamaMom says:

    I could not care less what the Arubans think of Americans, and I feel certain that 99% of U.S. citizens feel the same way. I am not taking their criticism any more seriously than THEY are taking the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. As I said many weeks ago, I wanted Iraq to be nuked when I saw their native animals beheading Americans. I feel the same way about Aruba. It is an impoverished country that milks it’s living from the deep pockets of resort-hopping Americans. My pocket change could buy any lowlife there a new home and food for a year. What exact purpose does Aruba serve to the U.S., or to anyone except the mafia drug cartels that run it? Criticize us? Call us suspects? ll. The U.S. needs to consider this a terrorist action, go in and find Natalee, and allow Aruba to rot in it’s self-made Hell.

  13. harry says:

    Gale:
    Yes, I have been following the case from the beginning. Actually, I am closer to this case than I should be … or want to be.

  14. harry says:

    BamaMom:
    Obviously, the Bamas have nothing to hide, why would they be worried, if the Arubans wanted to question them?

  15. AnnaA says:

    >>Field Offices will respond to cases involving the mysterious disappearance of a child whenever and however they come to the attention of FBI personnel. All reports of circumstances which indicate a minor has, or possibly has, been abducted are afforded an immediate Preliminary Inquiry. In order for the FBI to initiate any investigation, it must have specific facts which indicate that a violation of federal law within the FBI’s jurisdiction may have occurred.<<
    So as the Arubans have reminded us hourly since this young woman disappeared within THEIR jurisdiction, this is NOT the jurisdiction of the FBI. Should they have listed her on their listing I am sure these same victim bashers would have been complaining that this case was not the FBI’s to investigate.
    Know this game, have seen it before. Blame the victim instead of the perps always, right?

  16. Paying Attention says:

    It is an absolute sin that ANYONE in Aruba is accusing a member of the Holloway/Twitty family of any involvement, for two reasons. First of all, as many of you have mentioned, and as the public knows, they were all in the U.S.A. Secondly, it is one of their own citizens who is the prime suspect in this case! Aruba’s concern with it’s precious “tourism” has turned this case into a miscarriage of justice, and the entire thing has been mishandled from the beginning. Also, the favortism with the Vandersloot family, I’m guessing because of Mr. Vandersloot’s position, is inexcusable! The U.S.A. offered every resource available, including F.B.I. agents to expedite the handling so Beth can find her daughter, and Aruba was so smug that it has refused. The progress has gone backwards, and the position of the case now is disgraceful. I will NEVER visit this supposed “safe place.” I guess it’s not so safe after all! Natalee is not the first young woman this has happened to!

  17. Moscow girl says:

    Oh my goodness……. Some Amerikans can get so nasty, when things don’t go their way….. ;-)
    Unfortunately, the “core of the issue” has split.
    There is an issue of a young human missing, and all should be done to find her, BUT JUST LIKE EVERYTHING SHOULD BE DONE TO FIND EVERY MISSING PERSON in this world!
    And then there is an issue of “Amerikan attitude” (with a disclaimer that it is limited to certain States, media, and groups of people) that splis outside of “the essence of this tragedy”…… And what I see is:
    – “Rah, rah! America” Fox news milking this issue to the max, enticing “nationalistic outrage” with few drops of “santity” occasionally coming from Greta and few guest speakers.
    – Posters who can’t afford to go to Miami, let alone to Aruba, yet screaming “I never spend my dollar in Aruba again”…… well, judging by the level of your intellect, you don’t have a dollar to go to Aruba or Hawaii…..
    – All the “US political reps” on State and National level “writing to Aruban authorities” to “take an action”….. And all they want is to be re-elected…. and in their position “have to do” this.
    – Then we have “Natalee’s parents”. I am certain the mother is hurting…….. But there is a “right way” and the “wrong way” to express one’s frustrations. If she is such a lady, what’s with “venom” against “everything that’s not like it is in Amerika”.. “Hurt” should not become “hate”…..
    To all of your who is threatenting violence against “Aruba”, “Surinam boys”, “Joran’s family…
    First of all, if you are such proud Amerikans, you’re walking on your own consitutional principles:
    – innocent till proven guilty.
    – within an established legal system to respect the decision of the court.
    – not to take a “law into your own hands”.
    It is sickenning to watch the US Media (Fox) circus created around this story….. It’s not helping the investigation. Maybe the process requires help…… but you don’t force help, you offer it and in a gracious way….. you buchered your own goal by beeing bullies and decending on the “foreign land” like locust…..
    Natalee’s parents should not “fall upon Aruba” like conquistadores…… “we are the people of the mighty nation, give us our daughter or else”… People go missing all over the world! it’s not a “war call” against “Amerika”.
    Quite blaming “Joran” for being out at a Casino on a school night! Your daughter was drinking, and gambling, and whatever……. 2 days out of school! And no, it’s not a reason to be hurt….. But teens are teens……. Natalee, Joran, the brothers…… other teens on the trip… They all entertained themselves at the SAME PLACES with the same glass of drinks! over the same roulette table!
    It’s shamefull that Dan’s “foreword” states that “offensive language, etc” will be banned from his sight…… Yet he allows threats of violence to be expressed quite openly and with no consquences.
    Words such as:
    – Nuke Aruba
    – Take a baseball batt to Joran’s family
    – threats of violence against people who are expressing opposing views to the “mad had Amerikans”…..
    I made good copies of all such “extremes” from this site, and sent it to Aruban and Holland government officials (and FBI with a warning that this site allows threats of violence), with a plea to take into consideration that this is a very small percentage of “Amerika”, and let it not become the “sentiment of the whole country”.
    The first place I sent it to is Aruban court house and officials…… the second was to all major Aruban newspapers. You “Alabama mama/papas” and other “red necks” want to make asses of yourself…. go right ahead….. it’s a free country. But other countries are free to know “what kind of asses you are”.
    Most of the country is not even aware of the “extreme tension” in regards to this case. People will still visit Aruba….
    I am planning 2 charter flights during X-mas to Aruba, on B747, full of Russian tourists from the Russian Far East……. Your loss is our gain!
    Oh, and did I just read in the newspaper, that Toyota is NOT going to build a factory in Alabama, but rather will build one in Canada, because they found the “average person” illiterate and under-educated…..
    How smart of them…… not to get involved with a place that has so many “Lindy Englands” running around…… Nobody will bring the great “Amerika” down, it will do it all on its own if the blimey government does not take up EDUCATING YOUR BUNCH.
    With all that said, I hope the case of Natalee is soon solved, and regadless of “nasty attitude” her mother finds peace.

  18. harry says:

    A sin, now? It is a sin for the Aruban police to conduct an investigation! I wonder Joran thinks about that.

  19. AnnaA says:

    So in Aruba the local predators are free to stalk and prey on the tourists, drug, rape and murder (their charge, not mine) and make the body disappear and if Americans don’t like it, they will cast asperions on your parents.
    Dave Holloway digging in that garbage dump for his daughter is one of the most haunting images I have of this whole tragedy and one of the saddest things I have ever seen. He and Beth and Jug have all three appeared together several times but did anybody think that maybe the family has tried to spread out to cover more ground?
    Well, no wouldn’t want to do that nor cast any blame on the Pride of Aruba Joren and the wolves who raised him, would we? Not all the sharks are in the water.

  20. DT says:

    Maybe they aren’t worried just insulted at the idiocy of police who think they could have been involved when they were across the ocean at the time. If I was the father I would have walked out as well.
    If this sort of attitude represent the majority view in Aruba, then I can personally say that I’ll be overjoyed when their economy turns to shit once americans get word of this crap.

  21. michele in bham says:

    Hey Harry, if you were close to the case as you claim you would know that Natalee’s dad isn’t from Alabama.

  22. harry says:

    That post was a hard act to follow Moscow Girl!

  23. harry says:

    Michelle:
    I do know that.

  24. AnnaA says:

    Moscow Girl,
    No, you did NOT read that Toyota would not build their plant here because we are illiterate because it is already built and functioning and so is the Mercedes and Hyundai is under construction so guess we know who the illiterate one is for looks like you are the one who cannot read.
    Yes, the FBI exists to assist Russian citizens and therefor is very concerned with your complaints I am quite sure. I would send them lots more if I were you. And I am sure you have included the threats to Americans from the Dutch and Arubans found on this site and others most especially to Mrs. Twitty, the victim’s mother which can be found all over the internet.

  25. BamaMom says:

    Harry,
    Did the article say that Mr. Holloway is worried? I think not. Although it was not stated, I believe the more appropriate emotion would be “insulted”. How dare the Aruban media even remotely imply that anyone from the Holloway or Twitty families would be involved in this? That is not only asinine; it is unfathomable. The interrogation of the three suspects has not yielded any clues because the Aruban government does not want it to. Unfortunately for them, they underestimated our determination to resolve this situation. What a lot of fools they truly are!!!

  26. michele in bham says:

    Moscow Girl, I know people who have visited Russia, and by their personal testimony it’s a stinking pig sty, very unclean.
    Natalee’s mother doesn’t hate anyone and it’s wrong of you to get on this forum and try and slander her, but from what I understand, lying is just par for the course for drunk Russians.

  27. DT says:

    It is funny how your anti-americani views have clouded your judgement in this case. This is about trying to find a missing girl. Of course, Beth is going to be aggresive in trying to find her daughter, what mother wouldn’t be. She is going to be angry at the suspects involved in this case, and she is going to be angry at anyone who impedes her ability to bring her daughter home. That is not hate, and it certainly has nothing to do with her opinions concerning America or foreign countries. I am really getting tired of people like you who try to turn the case of a missing girl into ammo to be used against a country you don’t like.

  28. michele in bham says:

    Harry, the only person that supposedly objects to being questioned is Natalee’s dad. Yet you ask why the Bama’s would mind being questioned.
    You just gave yourself away as not being close to the case.
    I imagine the reason that Dave Holloway objects to being questioned is the fact that the Aruban Gov. is covering up his daughters rape and murder.
    He goes out and searches for her while they sit around on their butts trying to make the parents guilty of their daughters murder.
    Yeah, you are about as close to this case as Moscow Girl is.

  29. AnnaA says:

    Harry,
    don;t be cryptic. Why on earth are you so close to this case, closer than you want to be? Just what is your connection that is so forcible and close? Are you not just reading here, casting aspersions at the victim at every opportunity like the rest of the trolls and nasties that should not even be posting her? This is a blog FOR Natalee, not against her. Sure any theory is entertained but I do not think victim bashing was the original intent for the blog. Those of you that are only here to do that, I just must ask myself why would you do such a thing??
    I remember you as the one who tried to actually fabricate out of thin air a vicious rumor about Natalee with absolutely no basis in fact for no reason other than you seem to have some sort of personal ax to grind or are just another garden variety woman hater. What is it you call a person who tries to invent a fact that does not exist to destory the reputation of another? Liar is the word that comes to my mind, what do you call it?

  30. harry says:

    Michelle and Anna:
    Sorry you both feel that way.

  31. sleuthing says:

    harry can claim he is “close to the case”, but just remember…..this is the internet, anybody can “claim” to be whomever they want and it doesn’t make it true.

  32. BamaMom says:

    And to think of all the money I have sent to Russia to help the little Russian children escape their desolate, poverty-stricken, hopeless little lives…were you a benefactor of that money, Moscow Girl? If so, I want a refund!! Don’t you have other things to worry about in the USSR, like economic disaster and Putin sending your country headfirst into WWIII? By the way, I know that illiteracy is rampant in your country, but the correct spelling is America, not Amerika. http://www.dictionary.com. Use it.

  33. bamaguy11 says:

    harry,
    thanks for nothing. say hello to the rest of the aruban police for me.
    those “closest” to her were in jail. i haven’t convicted joran of anything just yet. however, he was the last to see her and his lies are very troubling. where is natalee? if she is deceased, then someone ON that island is responsible.

  34. harry says:

    Why are the Bamas so upset, when they hear the Aruban police want to question them?

  35. BamaMom says:

    Harry…I’ll say it again….geez…
    Did the article say that Mr. Holloway is worried? I think not. Although it was not stated, I believe the more appropriate emotion would be “insulted”. How dare the Aruban media even remotely imply that anyone from the Holloway or Twitty families would be involved in this? That is not only asinine; it is unfathomable. The interrogation of the three suspects has not yielded any clues because the Aruban government does not want it to. Unfortunately for them, they underestimated our determination to resolve this situation. What a lot of fools they truly are!!!

  36. annie says:

    While I do believe that JVdS and PVdS have a big responsibility in this case, I do believe that everyone (chaperones and students) that went on that trip should have been questioned that first week upon learning Natalee was missing. If nothing else, it could shed some light on this case. You know it is often small details that
    solve a case.
    I do believe I read somewhere that the FBI had already gone through a round of questions with the others and I would hope that they shared that information with Aruban authorities. But perhaps a second round of questioning might be in order as well. A detailed missed previously might be remembered.
    I do have a question for anyone that watched the Nancy Grace show tonight. When they questioned the defense atty for the boys, he claimed that he was able to bring forth testimonies from two different fisherman that claimed they were fishing off the beach the alleged beach where Joran and Natalee were said to be from midnight until about 5 AM and that there was never a single person on the beach the entire time. They also said that they did see a Jeep on a road near the beach for about 40 min and that was the only unusual thing they noticed. It was these testimonies that supposedly got the Kalpoe boys off but that kept Joran still there (supposed to be a difference in their stories or something). But what I don’t understand is that they never saw the Kalpoe car either. So how does that help the Kalpoes look innocent? Also, if they never saw Joran and Natalee on the beach, then wouldn’t that also make the Kalpoes look like they were still lying and hadn’t really dropped them off there? How in the world does that support their “innocence”? Any theories, or did I mishear something?

  37. harry says:

    It is not unfathomable. It is called police work.

  38. websleuth2 says:

    My favorite is the Anti-Incorrect Information committee,which is not concerned with “incorrect and positive” information, only with correcting
    “incorrect and negative” information.
    Check this out:
    http://news.caribseek.com/Aruba/AM_Digital/article_16318.shtml
    Prime Minister Nelson Oduber presents “anti incorrect news” committee
    by A.M. Digital
    Posted: Jun 30, 2005 17:21 UTC

  39. bamaguy11 says:

    harry,
    i don’t object to the questioning of family, friends, suspects, etc…
    however, do you guys normally wait a month before starting your so-called “police work?”
    the boycott by Americans isn’t your biggest concern. the aruban government is shaking in their boots over the U.S.’s increasing presence in monitoring drug activity in the area.
    less drug sales = less kickback to government officials
    without US tourism & drug money, maybe the arubans can take back their country from the dutch outcasts would run the government.

  40. annie says:

    I think the Aruban authorities should have looked into this in the beginning. The families are now stressed and feeling left in the dark because nothing can be shared with them. They are the “victims” here, but victims are not allowed any information during an investigation cycle (or so it seems). We here in America are used to so much being shared from the early stages of an investigation, that we tend to grow paranoid when we are shut out. Now couple that with being the parent involved in your child being the victim and you can imagine how much paranoia you would build.
    However, it is not unreasonable for families’ backgrounds and alibis to be looked at in a missing persons case. It is done all the time in the US so it shouldn’t be frowned upon when Aruba wants to do the same thing. In this case though the timing was obvious. She was missing before any of them were on the island. In fact, they were not only not on the island, they were hours by plane away from the island. But I suppose from a legal standpoint, they just have to complete that background to show the courts they thoroughly investigated all angles.
    At this point, I believe the best thing the family can do is fully cooperate, while continuing to work with the Texas search team and see if they can get their daughter back. That should be their primary focus and anything they can do to “smooth” the ruffled feathers over there right now may help. They also should see if they can be working more closely with the prosecutor and find out what she is really doing. Even if she doesn’t reveal details of what she does or does not have on the case, by working closely, they may pick up enough bits and pieces to learn a lot.
    I praise Beth for holding up as well as she has. She is truly a remarkable woman. May the Lord give them all strength to get through this and return their daughter to them!

  41. harry says:

    BamaGuy:
    I’m an American from Hawaii.

  42. BamaMom says:

    Oh I GET IT..Harry is an Aruban policeman, and the substance of his investigation is web blogs. Apparently, he only reads the posts that are anti-American, too. He doesn’t seem to understand the prolific or well-written points of view, or anything that questions the Arubans in any way. Well, no wonder they can’t find Natalee, or extract a confession from anyone in Aruba. I see now that I am the dumb one…all this time, I half-heartedly believed that they were actually half-heartedly investigating this matter. No, they are depending on what WE are saying happened to her, as long as “we” are cursing the Holloways and the Twittys, and America in general. Well, I say that Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoes did it, so there you are, Harry. Take a break and eat a doughnut. Do I get to ride in the police car and honk the horn for my great investigative work?

  43. harry says:

    BamaMom:
    I don’t eat donuts.

  44. harry says:

    BamaMom:
    I’ve never been to Alabama.

  45. Biily Bob says:

    If the mother of NH really wants to get this investigation over with, she is going to have to demand that everyone her family and the friends of NH fully and honestly cooperate with the Arubian investigation. And they should all tell the truth and not make things up or tell false stories that will only further confuse this investigation. It is apparent that the MBH kids that have been interviewd by the press have been evasive, less than candid and some cannot keep their story straight when the appear on camera more than once or are asked essentially the same question more than once.

  46. BamaMom says:

    Harry…Then get back to work!!!
    For those who saw Nancy Grace…how do we know that the stories of the fishermen were not fabricated? Heck, for that matter, we were all fishing there that night…like the Aruban police would know…

  47. harry says:

    BamaMom:
    If the fishermen did not see them on the beach, maye they went into the Marriott Hotel. The Marriott is Joran’s stomping ground and not the Holiday Inn.

  48. BamaMom says:

    Billy Bob,
    If I am not mistaken, the MBH kids are “evasive” to the public because of some comments taken out of context in an issue of People magazine. They have cooperated fully with the investigation in every other way. However, Joran Van Der Sloot has changed his story 8 times already, and it was reported that the Kalpoes changed their stories more than once as well. Yet they are free, and Joran probably will be too at some point if this investigation continues in it’s present direction. I honestly don’t see how the investigation could become more confusing, but “tomorrow is another day”.

  49. annie says:

    I tend to agree Billy Bob. I think that they need to cooperate and be fully honest. If any are keeping something from the authorities (or their own families because they think they will be in trouble or will look bad) they are only hurting the investigation. They may know something that could be invaluable to lead to the bottom of all of this if they would just open up and be honest. I think the priority is that everyone involved (the chaperones, kids that went on the trip, and the family members) all need to cooperate and focus on finding Natalee.

  50. websleuth2 says:

    The “anti-incorrect” information campaign by the PM of Aruba has cited the mislabeling of Paul van der Sloot as a “judge” as opposed to a “judge in training”. Yet, it was Anita van der Sloot who started this meme, referring to her husband as a “judge”. See http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5104342,00.html

  51. annie says:

    BamaMom, I also wondered about that same thing. It seems you can buy a witness over there real easy. It would be nice to know they were being honest, but we have no way of knowing that.
    But say they were being honest, then how does that help out the Kalpoes? If no one was seen on the beach and the Kalpoe car had not been seen, I am still at a loss how this managed to help get them released (this supposedly was the evidence they were being truthful but Joran wasn’t according to their atty).

  52. BamaMom says:

    Harry,
    I don’t know what they saw. Why don’t you ask them? You are so very close to the case, afterall.
    BTW..I am sorry you have never been to Alabama..FYI…the family names are the Holloways and the Twittys…not the Bamas…”Bama” is a shortened version of the word “Alabama”, usually used by natives of the state. Mr. Holloway is a native of Mississippi..but of course, you know that…

  53. harry says:

    Yes, I do. I know Beth and Mr. Holloway lived in Mississippi. I have never been to Mississippi either.

  54. harry says:

    If they went into the Marriott Hotel, one of Joran’s friends got him into a room in the same manner that Mickey John got access to the rooms in the Holiday Inn. If something happened to Natalee in the Marriott, members of the staff covered for Joran. The person who let Joran in the room at the Marriott is the same one who brought him home that night. That is why he refuses to name this person and claims to have walked home.
    Those are “IFs” but they make sense, since the Marriott is where Joran partied extensively.

  55. Billy Bob says:

    Some much uninformed speculation just further confuses this case and it is hard to make sense of anything. Some point to the fact of PVDS making a statement about no body no crime. The say that he must have been involved. But they fail to note that this statement was captured through a wiretap of the boys were first questioned by the police and not held. This would have been days after NH went missing.

  56. websleuth2 says:

    Caribseek News was never a Litter Pan Liner in Either the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba
    by A.M. Digital
    Posted: Jun 30, 2005 17:25 UTC
    ORANJESTAD – We think it is about time to correct the false information that is constantly being published and aired, especially by the international (US) media, that Caribseek News was used as a cat litter pan liner in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.
    This is absolutely false and according to information that we have, the Caribseek News was used as a litter pan liner only in Surinam and Aruba but not in the Netherlands Antilles as a whole
    Surinam is no longer part of the Netherlands Antilles, having achieved independence from the Netherlands in the last century, aroung 1998 or 1999.
    In 2003, Nelson Obender, the Prime Minister of Aruba, as part of his formation to become a non-hair-impaired individual, did his utmost to correct the record. As such he followed training as his wish was to one day to have hair and to not look or talk so weird. He did his utmost. He functioned as a deputy Prime Minister, but always under supervision of an established Monarch or Oligarch.
    In March 2004, Caribseek News did its utmost to travel to Holland for a year and when it returned to Aruba in March 2005 cat owners did their utmost to hold their noses since the litter pans he did not receive the required recommendation to become changed of their news liners.
    The results of his changing in Holland were not sufficient to become to the utmost, and the Prime Minister was notified by the President of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba that he cannot function as an Hairy Man (e.g. Easua’s brother in the Old Testament)or as a Smooth Man and has to look for another function.
    We know for a fact that several cats were reported missing before the PM did function to the utmost as a haired man. Then, working to his utmost, he functioned as PM because there was no probable cause since March 2004, and when he functioned as a deputy PM before that time, it was always under supervision of an established Judge of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.
    We think that for the sake of correctness and objective news distribution, the media, and especially US media such as CNN and Fox News must stop sensacionalizing the entire PM drama and quit giving false information to the international public about his wig.

  57. harry says:

    If they went into the Marriott Hotel, one of Joran’s friends got him into a room in the same manner that Mickey John got access to the rooms in the Holiday Inn. If something happened to Natalee in the Marriott, members of the staff covered for Joran. The person who let Joran in the room at the Marriott is the same one who brought him home that night. That is why he refuses to name this person and claims to have walked home.
    Those are “IFs” but they make sense, since the Marriott is where Joran partied extensively.

  58. TheTellTruth says:

    I seriously cannot help but laugh at the people that get on here and trash the USA…..do you have nothing better to do? Jealousy is an ugly trait you know. I know it is irritating if you are competitive and are always number two, but keep in mind it’s not a competition when discussing countries. Is this investigation a prime example of debachery?…..absolutely. And the saddest part is that Aruba’s own incompetence is what is leading some people to try to justify a thought process that the three kids are innocent. Statements like “He could be innocent, because he hasn’t been proven guilty”. Well, he hasn’t been proven guilty, because the Aruban police gave them 10 days to clean up and create a story. “Under serveillance”? Give me a break….nice try at an attempt to make ineptitude look like skill. I just feel terrible for Natalee’s family whom will probably never get an answer. One thing is for sure though, an important lesson has been learned by all traveling Americans. There is no place like home. And for those of you that think we weren’t going to go to Aruba anyways…..you’re probably right, cuz I’m just as happy in the US Virgin Islands.

  59. Sarah says:

    The article says they questioned Natalee’s dad over the weekend… He wasn’t even in Aruba over the weekend.. what a crock of lies!! This is just another tactic the Aruban cops are using to cover up this crime.

  60. harry says:

    If they went into the Marriott Hotel, one of Joran’s friends got him into a room in the same manner that Mickey John got access to the rooms in the Holiday Inn. If something happened to Natalee in the Marriott, members of the staff covered for Joran. The person who let Joran in the room at the Marriott is the same one who brought him home that night. That is why he refuses to name this person and claims to have walked home.
    Those are “IFs” but they make sense, since the Marriott is where Joran partied extensively.

  61. satchmo says:

    Yes the Twitty and Holloway family were in the US and could not have been around Natalee while she was in Aruba. I doubt that the authorities wanted to question Jug about this.
    Should not at least the Aruban authorities ask questions to find out if Natalee had an excessive amount of life insurance to at least eliminate the possibility of a staged disappearance to collect insurance, as remote as this possibility is. The police in the US always go through the process of eliminating those closest to the disappeared person, and almost always those investigated are offended, but understand they must be eliminated as suspects.
    If I were Jug, I would want Natalee to be found and would want to cooperate in any way I could.

  62. websleuth2 says:

    Caribseek News was never a Litter Pan Liner in Either the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba
    by A.M. Digital
    Posted: Jun 30, 2005 17:25 UTC
    ORANJESTAD – We think it is about time to correct the false information that is constantly being published and aired, especially by the international (US) media, that Caribseek News was used as a cat litter pan liner in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.
    This is absolutely false and according to information that we have, the Caribseek News was used as a litter pan liner only in Surinam and Aruba but not in the Netherlands Antilles as a whole
    Surinam is no longer part of the Netherlands Antilles, having achieved independence from the Netherlands in the last century, aroung 1998 or 1999.
    In 2003, Nelson Obender, the Prime Minister of Aruba, as part of his formation to become a non-hair-impaired individual, did his utmost to correct the record. As such he followed training as his wish was to one day to have hair and to not look or talk so weird. He did his utmost. He functioned as a deputy Prime Minister, but always under supervision of an established Monarch or Oligarch.
    In March 2004, Caribseek News did its utmost to travel to Holland for a year and when it returned to Aruba in March 2005 cat owners did their utmost to hold their noses since the litter pans he did not receive the required recommendation to become changed of their news liners.
    The results of his changing in Holland were not sufficient to become to the utmost, and the Prime Minister was notified by the President of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba that he cannot function as an Hairy Man (e.g. Easua’s brother in the Old Testament)or as a Smooth Man and has to look for another function.
    We know for a fact that several cats were reported missing before the PM did function to the utmost as a haired man. Then, working to his utmost, he functioned as PM because there was no probable cause since March 2004, and when he functioned as a deputy PM before that time, it was always under supervision of an established Judge of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.
    We think that for the sake of correctness and objective news distribution, the media, and especially US media such as CNN and Fox News must stop sensacionalizing the entire PM drama and quit giving false information to the international public about his wig.

  63. Aruba Lover says:

    Did I miss something some where? If you live in a country that relies HEAVILY on tourist dollars from the US, why do you try to bash the main players instead of working to sort out the problem? I really hate to see this island in a downward spin. It’s an AWSOME place. Hopefully this will be resolved soon. I believe for Aruba it would be better to sacrifice Joran van der Sloot to save the economy, or maybe just let him out of jail.. Likely enough American tourist visiting there that someone would volunteer to ‘Drop him off at the beach so he can be alone’

  64. harry says:

    Aruba Lover:
    Maybe that is precisely why they have kept Joran confined!

  65. pinkplumeria64 says:

    Aloha,
    I cannot understand how a boy of 17 years old, under the influence of drugs and alcohol, could possibly plan and act so quickly to dispose Natalee’s body. For this reason, there is no way he did this alone.

  66. sleuthing says:

    I am absolutely disgusted with what I am reading on here. Nobody in Natalee’s family harmed her! they were not even IN Aruba when she vanished!
    So, now I guess it’s trash Natalee’s family in hopes that it will take the focus off the inept investigation that happened from day one.
    It won’t work.
    And. harry……how many times are you going to post that same thing over and over again? Do you have any link to back up what you claim about the security guard who was arrested having access to the rooms where Joran was partying the very night Natalee vanished?

  67. Aruba Lover says:

    Pinkplumeria64,
    I doubt there was much planning to it. Island is small, in open water, with strong currents and a rocky coast. Given the right tides, and location on the island(which are likely know by someone who has spend a good part of their life there) it would be like tossing a bottle in a flowing river. Sailing away.

  68. BamaMom says:

    Jug is Natalee’s stepfather, not her father. At any rate, I believe that her father’s (or stepfather’s) response to the questioning is totally understandable. The father knows that his daughter has most likely been raped, killed, and fed to the sharks. He and the rest of the world have watched the Aruban police bungle this case to the point that Natalee never be found, and we may never really know what happened, and NOW they want to question her parents as if they are SUSPECTS? I believe that any man with daughters would react in the same exact way with equal rage at what has happened to his child.

  69. P in S.E.Asia says:

    i guess one day we will all learn that “WE SHOULD NEVER BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS US” – Goes for people on both sides of the divide. Ponder that

  70. websleuth2 says:

    RE: i guess one day we will all learn that “WE SHOULD NEVER BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS US” – Goes for people on both sides of the divide. Ponder that Posted by: P in S.E.Asia | July 6, 2005 03:34 AM
    Dear “P”
    Are you implying that the heroin supply to the US will dry up? Or the black market cigarettes?

  71. clintcarter says:

    I certainly think it’s relevant to question the parents about Natalee’s associations, plans, etc. I did not read that family members were being accused, as some say above, just questioned. That has got to be one of the most demanding aspects of law enforcement, questioning the loved ones in their darkest hours. But as always, why wait so long? Why make it appear to be reactionary, borne of bitterness? What a friggin’ mess..
    It was mentioned that Joran lied 8 times? Is there a list of his lies and changes in this blog somewhere? I would be very interested in reading that. Even deceit can tell a truth…

  72. Chris says:

    New here… I was just googling NH to see if someone had more insight into the case and somewhere on this blog I read that there was a misterious phone call at 3 a.m. from Aruba to Alabama. Maybe they want to question the family about that.

  73. BamaMom says:

    That said, websleuth, can we order it here in the states? I have a cat, and some birds, and an incontinent English Bulldog…and I wouldn’t want to waste any American trees when I can use the Aruban paper instead. ?????

  74. elan says:

    that’s weird. the police couldn’t have talked with dad holloway last weekend. he went home to spend time with his wife and children. this newspaper is a joke.

  75. proudredneck says:

    Mowcow Girl is just a frumpy old bitter person.

  76. AkekoaHoAlethia says:

    RE: TROLLS
    ………………………………………
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Troll
    “In the context of the Internet, a troll is a message that seems to at least one user to be inflammatory or hostile, which by effect
    or design causes a disruptions in discourse. The word is also often used to describe a person posting such messages.
    A troll deliberately exploits weaknesses of human nature or of an online community to upset people.
    Trolling is deliberate and intentional attempts to disrupt the usability of a site for its editors, administrators, developers, and
    other people who work to create content.
    Trolling is deliberate violation of the implicit rules of Internet social spaces.”
    ……………………………………..
    SEE ALSO:
    http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm
    ……………………………………..
    [From the Usenet group alt.folklore.urban] To utter a posting on Usenet designed to attract predictable responses or flames; or,
    the post itself. Derives from the phrase “trolling for newbies” which in turn comes from mainstream “trolling”, a style of fishing
    in which one trails bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The well-constructed troll is a post that induces lots of newbies
    and flamers to make themselves look even more clueless than they already do, while subtly conveying to the more savvy and
    experienced that it is in fact a deliberate troll. If you don’t fall for the joke, you get to be in on it. See also YHBT.
    …………………………………….
    The best way of dealing with trolls is to ignore them.

  77. BamaMom says:

    Clintcarter,
    The fact that Joran has changed his story 8 times was mentioned on Nancy Grace. I believe it was last Wednesday or Thursday. She was discussing that fact with Jug Twitty in a live interview. I’m sorry I don’t remember the exact date; when I have time, I will try to find it.

  78. proudredneck says:

    Maybe Moscow Girl got her call from the Putin to help the KGB, and is on the hunt for corrupt Americans who are raping and pillaging the poor Arubans, or hopefully, she has just run out of venom and gone to sleep.

  79. satchmo says:

    BamaMom,
    If you remember that case down in Florida where the little girl disappeared out of her home. The grandmother, grandfather and father were questioned and given lie detector tests. As it turned out they were innocent and that Cooley pervert did the crime. The may have been offended (probably were) but they did what was necessary to move the investigation along. Apparantly Jug just was offended and did not cooperate.
    Often time there is little evidence and good detective work looks at the possibilities and then attempts to eliminate those possibilities. I think it would be a sign of further incompetence if the Aruban police were to not consider and then eliminate possibilities, and those usually are related to those closest to the missing person.
    Apparently the police did not have sufficient evidence to implicate the K brothers. You say Natalee was raped, killed and fed to the sharks, but that is just your assumption based on rumors; none of us has much in the way of facts. This is hardly sleuthing or the foundation of good police work.

  80. BamaMom says:

    Chris,
    I read that Natalee’s mother was at a family reunion in Arkansas (or en route back to Alabama) at the time of Natalee’s disappearance. Does the blog say who was calling whom from Aruba?

  81. proudredneck says:

    Satchmo, are you suggesting Natalee’s family have lie detector tests by the Arban government, which will NOT even use them in eliciting information from the Kalpoes or Joran?
    I suppose you would think if they find Natalee’s body, and she is not “too dead”, they could give her a lie detector test as opposed to giving one to Paulus or Joran.
    I never cease to be amazed.

  82. Chris says:

    No. It doesnt say. It just mentions that there was a call from Aruba to Alabama at 3 a.m. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here.

  83. The truth says:

    It is obvious that Beth Twitty, Jug Twitty
    and Dave Twitty are stepping
    on toes of corruption in Aruba. Naturally
    the Arubans want the entire family and the press to leave. So now they have started the intimidation process. Intimidate the victims family so that they will leave.
    I say Beth you go girl! Give em all you got…
    They don’t really care about Natalee down there
    they only care about themselves. IF they cared about Natalee…the protests in front of the courthouse would not be against the press nor Natalee’s family but a DEMAND THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT FIND NATALEE IMMEDIATELY,
    All of those Arubans demonstrating in front of the courthouse should have been protesting the
    release of the Kalpoe brothers…
    As I have said before…the way too hold the Aruban Govt. accountable is through their pocket books..
    I think we need to start bombarding American business located on the Island with letters…
    I am going to email Dee Fine about this..
    By the way Alabama is one of the best places on earth to live and I am proud to be an Alabamian
    and would not trade 50 Aruba’s for one Alabama!
    God Bless Alabama and God Bless the USA

  84. Chris says:

    No. It doesnt say. It just mentions that there was a call from Aruba to Alabama at 3 a.m. I’ll see if I can find it and post it here.

  85. Chris says:

    Its under the heading “Timeline” and it says “A mutual friend of the TWITTY’s and CHARLES CROES telephones CROES. CROES owns a cellular phone rental company in Aruba. The friend contacts CROES hoping that a phone call that they thought NATALEE may have made from Aruba to Alabama in the early morning hours of 5-30 was made with one of CROES cellular phones. (is this the supposed 3:00 AM phone call made from Aruba to Alabama????) The friend tells CROES that the TWITTY’s are in Aruba and CROES says he will meet them right away and help the TWITTY’s however he can. They agree to meet at a gas station. CROES takes a kid he knows with him and they depart for the gas station.” posted by Dan

  86. BamaMom says:

    SatchMo,
    No, my presumptions may be not be the foundation of good police work. I agree. However, I am not a member of the Aruban police, whose job it is to find out what happened to Natalee. I believe that they have spent an inordinate amount of time basing their case, or lack of one, on rumors as well. It was stated earlier on this blog (and on Nancy Grace) that the K brothers were dismissed because of the testimony of some random fishermen. Who knows if the testimony of those fishermen is credible, either? One DJ has already admitted to lying for the brothers; who else could be doing the same? I feel sure that whichever “father” became enraged at the questioning was just sick and tired of this whole ordeal. I do remember Mark Lunsford’s comments when he was asked for his thoughts about (his family) being questioned in the disappearance of his daughter in Florida. He said, “I don’t pay any attention to it. I know my mom and dad.” Well, while investigators were questioning and administering lie detector tests to Mark, Archie, and Ruth Lunsford, Jessica was across the street being buried alive by John Couey. The invesigators knew he was a pedophile, yet they never searched his home until after they realized he had escaped to Georgia. They even talked to him at his door while he had Jessica hidden in his closet. Decent police work might have saved that little girl. The same applies to Natalee. Too much time has been wasted on rumors and speculation. Period.

  87. satchmo says:

    Proudredneck,
    No, am not suggesting lie detector tests.
    I am suggesting that Jug should answer the questions of the Aruban Police so that the Police can follow whatever path of investigation they deem prudent.
    My view is that it is probable that the family is in no way involved, but the police cannot just assume that; rather they must gather evidence to eliminate any possibilities related to them. Lots of questions that need to be asked by police are uncomfortable, and lots of crimes remain unsolved because the police follow only one path and ignore other paths.

  88. The Truth says:

    Typo…meant Dave Holloway, instead of Twitty..

  89. The Truth says:

    Typo correction…meant Dave Holloway, instead of Twitty..

  90. BamaMom says:

    The Truth,
    I have said, and stepped on some toes when I did, that when Aruba decides which is more important-the drug trade, or the tourism industry, they will find Natalee, or NOT. Right now, it somewhat appears that they are more concerned about the drug trade.
    Alabama is the greatest place on earth to live. I never realized that until I had to move to Arkansas (the armpit of the South) this summer. I cry every time I see an Alabama license plate, or hear “Sweet Home Alabama”. I am headed back to Bama ASAP, and I never intend to leave it again.
    Natalee deserves to return to Alabama too.

  91. satchmo says:

    Proudredneck,
    No, am not suggesting lie detector tests.
    I am suggesting that Jug should answer the questions of the Aruban Police so that the Police can follow whatever path of investigation they deem prudent.
    My view is that it is probable that the family is in no way involved, but the police cannot just assume that; rather they must gather evidence to eliminate any possibilities related to them. Lots of questions that need to be asked by police are uncomfortable, and lots of crimes remain unsolved because the police follow only one path and ignore other paths.

  92. clintcarter says:

    Thanks, BamaMom. I was less interested in the # than in the content of the lies. As in if he says north south, what was happening at east west… does that make sense?
    The detained security guards had been in Natalee’s hotel/room????? Where does THAT come from?

  93. the truth says:

    correction: Dave Holloway

  94. BamaMom says:

    The Truth,
    I have said, and stepped on some toes when I did, that when Aruba decides which is more important-the drug trade, or the tourism industry, they will find Natalee, or NOT. Right now, it somewhat appears that they are more concerned about the drug trade.
    Alabama is the greatest place on earth to live. I never realized that until I had to move to Arkansas (the armpit of the South) this summer. I cry every time I see an Alabama license plate, or hear “Sweet Home Alabama”. I am headed back to Bama ASAP, and I never intend to leave it again.
    Natalee deserves to return to Alabama too.

  95. BamaMom says:

    The Truth,
    I have said, and stepped on some toes when I did, that when Aruba decides which is more important-the drug trade, or the tourism industry, they will find Natalee, or NOT. Right now, it somewhat appears that they are more concerned about the drug trade.
    Alabama is the greatest place on earth to live. I never realized that until I had to move to Arkansas (the armpit of the South) this summer. I cry every time I see an Alabama license plate, or hear “Sweet Home Alabama”. I am headed back to Bama ASAP, and I never intend to leave it again.
    Natalee deserves to return to Alabama too.

  96. BamaMom says:

    The Truth,
    I have said, and stepped on some toes when I did, that when Aruba decides which is more important-the drug trade, or the tourism industry, they will find Natalee, or NOT. Right now, it somewhat appears that they are more concerned about the drug trade.
    Alabama is the greatest place on earth to live. I never realized that until I had to move to Arkansas (the armpit of the South) this summer. I cry every time I see an Alabama license plate, or hear “Sweet Home Alabama”. I am headed back to Bama ASAP, and I never intend to leave it again.
    Natalee deserves to return to Alabama too.

  97. The truth says:

    Dan…someone is hacking into your site and this forum causing repeat blogging posts. See the duplications above.

  98. BamaMom says:

    Clintcarter…I understand exactly. Joran is obviously very smooth, or very well coached. Or both….
    I just wonder why so many Arubans think the Twitty’s actions are “not acceptable”, yet they were not upset about the remarks made by Paulus Van Der Sloot (“no body, no crime”). What kind of father tells his child that? Is the fact that Joran had free reign on the island, and his parents did not even know where he was on the night of Natalee’s disappearance (When the Twittys arrived at the VDS home, the parents could not even find Joran. They thought he was in his apartment. The father had supposedly picked him up from McDonald’s at 11, and then Joran went out again???) ACCEPTABLE behavior for a 17 year old kid? If Joran is innocent, and someone else did it, or Natalee died by some accidental means, why doesn’t he just admit it? Who among us would tell our sons to lie and cover up an accident? Is doing the right thing unheard of on Aruba? The Aruban media expects the Twittys to just leave and never find their daughter. What kind of people are we dealing with on that island? They apparently have no regard for the truth, or for human life.

  99. MiniMe says:

    Justice for Natalle !!
    Then and only then will our News Media go away.
    ARUBAN news Media run the mafia,what do you expect !!
    Time for Regime change in Aruba !
    Overthrow the Mafia owned government of Aruba !
    ARUBAN government is “GOING DOWN”
    You are a bunch of Mafia owned thugs and cowards making easy money off your drug, prostitution, and gambling trade. People are not blind.!!
    Tell the truth. Let the chips fall where they may.
    Give Beth her daughter now !
    “BE SURE THE TRUTH WILL FIND YOU OUT !”

  100. MiniMe says:

    Some of you damn people(if that is what you want to call yourselves–more like demons from hell) are cowards and scumbags. You make me sick!
    You have no respect for human life and have no idea what Beth and her family and friends have been going through all this time.
    You obviously don’t care. ! You want to post your lies and garbage here as if it were a game. You are all pathetic ! May you burn in hell! ..And take the scum that did this to Natalee and your sorry Mafia drug controlled government of the Island of Aruba with you!
    I feel sorry for the “true honest citizens” of Aruba. May they overthrow their government there and replace it with decent and respectable people and run all the mafia gang into the ocean with the sharks! Then and only then will you have a “Happy ISLAND”
    And for you Americans and others that are trashing Natalee and her family you should be deported ! It could be your child. What the hell would you do ?? Back off Beth Twitty and Natalee !
    The guilty dog always barks ~ ARUBAN MEDIA ~You know whats going on. DO I SEE COVEDRUP, ARUBA=GATE! ???? AHA…….

  101. HoytUsa says:

    http://michaelcrooktalks.com/node/318 Has anybody read this guys articles? I hate to bring negativity into this forum, but it makes me furious that there are these people out there.

  102. LornaD says:

    Annie
    The report did not say the fishermen saw a Jeep on the beach that night. It said they saw a white Suzuki. The reporter said a white Suzuki was one of the cars taken from the vd Sloot’s, to be searched.
    Did anyone else see the other CNN report with interviews with Tim Miller and Gene Ralston? Miller says he thinks they are very close to finding Natalee and they will going to Alabama for a funeral. I was astounded to hear him say that; it is not his usual manner.
    There was some mention of a psychic helping them, pinpointing specific spots. There was some dialogue with Ralston as well. Apparently the place they are looking is a dangerous area of the ocean that divers avoid and few boats enter. This may be the reason Miller said something a few days ago about the divers being in a very dangerous place. I must say I am very surprised to hear Tim Miller and Ralston are working with a psychic.

  103. Sceptic says:

    Perhaps Bush should consider an invasion of Aruba.
    It’s about time that they are thought some old-fashioned American values. So Joran, watch out that they don’t sent Lynndie England to teach you some lessons. I bet if there was oil, Bush would already have taken the decision.

  104. Max says:

    I get it now. It all makes sense. Natalee’s father arranged for her to meet JVDS, leave the bar with him, get taken who knows where by him and his accomplices, and then disappear. Of course, he did all this while in the U.S. Also, JVDS hasn’t mentioned any of this because he’s willing to take the fall for Dave Holloway. Makes perfect sense.

  105. Billy Bob says:

    LoranD: The lawyer for one of the Kalpo brothers said the 2 fisherman said they saw a jeep like vehicle in the general area in question, but a little further away. The lawyer should know because he read the statements. The reporter was wrong (not unusual these days) when he cited the white Suzuki. Also, the VDS vehicles taken by the investigation were a red jeep and a blue Suzuiki.

  106. basil's blog says:

    Breakfast: 7/6/2005

    Try one of these specials with your breakfast: Beth finds Ted’s exit strategy. The Therapist writes a letter to Becker County, Minnesota District Judge Thomas Schroeder. * The Jawa Report has more on the killer-blogger. Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi (guest posting

  107. fokje says:

    I really don’t understand what Natalees father is upsett about? I couldn’t care less if my family was asked for information about the missing person if it was my daughter.
    Has the family something to hide?

  108. pogo4224 says:

    Dave was on our local news last night here in Meridian. It was a very brief news interview. We pray for the closure and a return of Natalee. I am a teacher of Natalee’s stepsister. My heart breaks for the entire family.

  109. Moggy says:

    Everyone saying the father has something to hide is making me sick!!
    Do you think YOU if you were her Dad wouldnt freak out and walk out if a bunch of yo-yo investigators who have totally screwed up the investigation start pointing the finger at YOU?? Thats like the last straw!! Next they will be pointing the finger at Natalee’s mom!!

  110. MiniMe says:

    GOOD POST !!
    It is obvious that Beth Twitty, Jug Twitty
    and Dave Twitty are stepping
    on toes of corruption in Aruba. Naturally
    the Arubans want the entire family and the press to leave. So now they have started the intimidation process. Intimidate the victims family so that they will leave.
    I say Beth you go girl! Give em all you got…
    They don’t really care about Natalee down there
    they only care about themselves. IF they cared about Natalee…the protests in front of the courthouse would not be against the press nor Natalee’s family but a DEMAND THAT THEIR GOVERNMENT FIND NATALEE IMMEDIATELY,
    All of those Arubans demonstrating in front of the courthouse should have been protesting the
    release of the Kalpoe brothers…
    As I have said before…the way too hold the Aruban Govt. accountable is through their pocket books..
    I think we need to start bombarding American business located on the Island with letters…
    I am going to email Dee Fine about this..
    By the way Alabama is one of the best places on earth to live and I am proud to be an Alabamian
    and would not trade 50 Aruba’s for one Alabama!
    God Bless Alabama and God Bless the USA
    Posted by: The truth | July 6, 2005 04:06 AM

  111. fokje says:

    Moggy: How so, “pointing a finger at you?” What has asking questions to the family to do with accusing someone?

  112. lesmes says:

    “NO BODY, NO CASE EVEN IN THE UNITED STATES”
    NH’s stepfather must tell what he knows and stop threatening the Aruban Gov., Whatever, he has to said wont jeopardize the investigation anyway. So, stop whispering and just speak out loud, Natalee has nothing too loose………

  113. TeenTraveler says:

    I will not go to Aruba. They don’t have any right to be asking Americans questions. We are the ones with the money and we should spend it in the places where the people are appreciative and humble.

  114. pogo4224 says:

    He said that friends and family of Joran’s will be able to visit and collaborate stories. He further said the time they spent out of jail from the beginning gave his dad plenty of coaching time. He firmly believes the VDS’s are responsible.

  115. lesmes says:

    I will not go to Aruba. They don’t have any right to be asking Americans questions. We are the ones with the money and we should spend it in the places where the people are appreciative and humble.
    hey teen, you americans are not the only ones that have money to spend in Aruba, we got the rusians, chinese, and europeans that want to come here to spend money, so keep your mouth shut

  116. Moggy says:

    fokje – obviously the line of questioning was enough to border on that sort of suggestion…otherwise he would not get upset and feel ‘attacked’. You can kind of figure that out from the context of the story.

  117. AP says:

    Not that American newspapers are in any way exemplary, but all this fuss over an article in AM Aruba? This particular publication is better known for what it doesn’t say, as is well demonstrated in the very article under consideration. The article contends that “The three suspects maintain their declaration…” without bothering to note that their story has changed two or more times. No, AM Aruba should not be mistaken for a thoughtful journalistic endeavor.
    Within a few days of Natalee’s disappearance, AM Digital published an article on page one about some American who was picked up for possessing a gun. A remarkable deflection of the Natalee Holloway story if I ever saw one, and a subtle indication of anti-American sentiment that’s never really far from the surface there.
    As for a potential loss of tourism dollars resulting from such subterfuge, I am reminded of a line from the classic film “The Magnificent Seven”, wherein the head bandit exclaims, “If God did not intend for them to be sheared, he would not have made them sheep!”

  118. Tsunder says:

    LesmeS- Oh so it was cool to investigate all the classmates of Joran? and his dad and mom? but not cool when they questioned the NH dad? I’m disgusted by you..
    Pardon my English.. :-)

  119. Lawrence Lagman says:

    Dan,
    I’ve been following this from the start, and some questions have occurred to me, that I think should be answered.
    1. Where did Joran get money to gamble in the casinos?
    2. Does he or did he have a gambling debt?
    3. In or around the casino are there sources for drugs?
    4. IS there a drug problem on the Island? If there is why haven’t the Aruban government and Police taken a more active role in stopping it?
    5. Does the DEA, CIA, FBI or the State Department have any information about Drug importation through Aruba?
    6. I have read a number of articles about Human Trafficking in countries in that region mixed in with the drug trafficking and money laundering. What is the relative danger to tourists and visitors to that country?
    7. What is the source of Joran’s or the Van Sloots income/money? Is it all from his work with the legal system?
    These are questions that I have.
    As for the Aruban demonstration yesterday, Dan, I agree with you. These folks need to realize, Beth Holloway Twitty and her family have been and will continue to be under a lot of stress until this case is resolved. This case is further complicated by the differences in the legal system and language.
    If demonstrations were to continue against aggressive reporting and attempts to get resolution in the case then maybe the State Department needs to consider issuing a travel advisory as to the safety to US citizens considering visiting Aruba?
    I remember that a gang Florida, a couple of years ago, was targeting German visitors to that state and PRESSURE was put on the US government AND the State of Florida to solve the crimes. I think Florida was listed on a German travel advisory until this was resolved. A little economic pressure could help.
    As for the Auban Police trying to point fingers at the FBI, I think the Aurban police should accept the blame or lack of success in this case. It does not inspire confidence in them.
    Lawrence Lagman

  120. Spike says:

    Just an absurd article and statement, if true, but the Aruban “authorities”.
    Sure… there we people on the island who knew Natalee Holloway. Her classmates, and the chaperones. But the persons of interest are always the last with her. This kid VDS is that person.
    I think they should be looking into the bartender, the person who could’ve easiest slipped the date rape drug into her drink. Since the bar had closed, he could’ve been the real perp. The VDS kid might’ve been in on it, but that scenario would make the Kalpoe’s unwitting accomplices.
    One can only speculate on what has been learned. If the Holloway’s are angry, it’s probably because they’re being told very little. FWIW, I doubt US cops would tell much either. Generally, you keep the intel close to the vest in order to not fall prey to the “tried in the media” charges, or tipping the hand for anyone else you might be pursuing.

  121. mona says:

    Hey Wake Up People!!! Natalee never went to the Marriot beach….sheesh The kalpoes took her to jorans cooler than cool bachelor pad where Joran and his Daddy taught her a thing or two about S&M.. Send the equusearch team to the VDS home….Organized crime is a beautiful thing when everyone does their part
    Come home Beth

  122. Coralee says:

    Just read on a Holland news update that PVS was in Holland from April 2004 to April 2005…
    studying to be a judge.
    Was he back and forth a lot to Aruba during this time? Was AVS home alone with the children during this length of time?

  123. mrs. MojoRisin' says:

    Aaah…. Moscow girl reveals the true depth of her jealousy and bitterness… and it is pathological.
    Btw…I don’t think I’d speak of American illiteracy if I were you MissSmartyPants
    —————-
    BBC // 01:02, 02/06/2005
    Russian children and teenagers are less healthy today than at any stage since World War II, the country’s interior minister has said.
    Homelessness, drugs, alcoholism and illiteracy among young Russians, threaten future development, Rashid Nurgaliyev told a Moscow conference.
    Russia’s improving economy is having little impact on unhealthy lifestyles and an epidemic of ill-health, he said.
    Some 700,000 children are orphaned or homeless, and 4m use drugs, he added.
    As high as these figures already sound, Mr Nurgaliyev said they represent just the tip of an iceberg, with the real numbers likely to be much higher.
    Even more seriously, those who had become addicted were starting to use hard drugs at an ever-younger age.
    Damaged country
    In turn, health officials say the large number of injecting drug users is helping fuel one of the world’s fastest growing rates of HIV infection.
    Mr Nurgaliyev said social problems were effecting not just young people’s health, but also their education.
    He suggested that around two million Russian teenagers are unable to read and write – in a country that, during the Soviet years, prided itself on almost 100% literacy.
    In sum, Mr Nurgaliyev said, the condition of Russian children and teenagers is comparable with that after the bloody civil war of the 1920s or World War II, when much of the country lay in ruins.
    This reflects just how deep – and often, how damaging – the impact of the transformations in Russia over the last two decades has been. The minister acknowledged that the state could do little on its own to improve the situation, and called on officials to work much more closely with human rights organisations and other public bodies.
    ——————–
    Americans shed blood for democracy to gain all the benefits of a free thinking society; corrupt Russian mobsters cram it down your throats victimizing the weak in your society in pursuit of wealth and power.
    So all we have to say to you Moscowgirl is ….
    …..WHATever.

  124. Carla says:

    Hi everyone…I just read Moscow girl’s post, and my goodness….I can’t believe that people actually hate America that much. I mean I thought these blogs were to reference Natalee Holloway, but some people are making it into “express your hate for America” blogs. I’d like to say that I wasn’t born in America, but I do live in America and i couldn’t be happier. I hope that the holloway/twitty family finds Natalee and returns home soon.

  125. andy says:

    We need to find a list of american corporations whom have incorporated on Aruba; and ask them to hop over to Curaco or another tax haven besides Aruba. We surely don’t want to continue to do business with these bandits.

  126. mrs. MojoRisin' says:

    Amen Carla. America exists for people like you and I.
    Moscowgirl has issues, and at the core of her problem is jealousy & conflict….
    that is….’she hates us cuz she ain’t us’. (Pardon my use of improper English.)

  127. vcsiii50 says:

    Moscow Girl
    You’re joking, right?
    It’s infuriating, and not at all helpful.
    I think you are a total fake.

  128. bamawings says:

    If the authorities are questioning the family about her disppearance, that truly reflects that this investigation has gone nowhere. Have they started questioning the aliens that might have picked her up. That is as logical an explanation as the possibility that her family had something to do with this. If this had occurred at home, that might be a valid question. It is ridiculous to think that they would have gotten on a plane and flown to Aruba and then done something there- moreover, how would they have known to look for her on the beach. I would put the same question to those who suggest that someone from Mt. Brook did this. Yes, it is possible that Joran left her on the beach and a spaceship from a distance planet beamed her up. We cannot prove that this did not happen. On the other hand, it is much more likely that this boy did something with her.
    It appears to me that there are really only a few likely possibilities:
    1. They never went to the beach and this happened at Joran’s house-but then the Kalpoe boys are lying still. Then they either disposed of the body or calld someone to do so.
    2. They went to the beach and something happend which most likely would result in a finger being pointed at Joran so he called his father and they either disposed of the body or had someone else do it.
    3. He left her on the beach and some other bad person happened along and got her-but where is her body and why did they go to so much trouble to hide the body since no one has any idea who this person would be. What are the chances of that happeneing? This would mean that some other bad person was out there between the hours of 2 and daylight,found her and took her somewhere. If this is the case, then Aruba is not that safe.
    4. Joran sold her into white slavery. Unless he had this pre-planned, this does not seem that likely although it is a possibility if he had gambling debts. In this case, he knows what happened but just will not tell. One would think that there would have to be phone calls to let the other participants know what time to pick her up, etc. This just does not seem very likely.
    5. She disppeared on her own. There is nothing to indicate that she would have done this and she left everything she would have needed in her room. If so, it looks like she would have been found on the island.
    6. she drown-but if so, then her body should have washed to shore. How likely is it that she would have gone swimming. If she did and disappeared, why did Joran not call the police.
    I guess without a body, there are any number of remote possibilities. However, you cannot escape one fact. Why did Joran lie? If he was innocent, then he should have just told the truth. That is the problem with his story. He was the last person to see as far as we know nd he has made up a story to cover his tracks. Perhaps he would have been better served had his father advised him to tell the truth-that is unless the truth will implicate him.
    I can understand the utter frustration that the family is feeling with the lack of progress and now they start questioning them. Frankly, I wish Jug would reveal what they have learned but are not supposed to reveal, this investigation is going nowhere. The boy was allowed too much time to cover his tracks. Beth Twitty is beginning to appear to be on the edge. I think that after the end of the equisearch, she may just need to face reality and come home. Not sure how much more she can take. In the last few news conferences, she has appeared very fragile.
    If the Arubans don’t like the press, perhaps there process should be more open-more might be accomplished in the investigation-could lead to more information.

  129. Reader says:

    So..the fishermen claim to have seen something…and rather than haul them in for questioning, Aruban LE wants to haul in the family? Can this get any more nutty? Time to bring in Scooby Doo — even in CGI form, he can solve the case better than Aruban LE.

  130. mrs. MojoRisin' says:

    Andy –
    It is a shame how many American dollars are invested in infrastructure in Aruba and how few Dutch dollars are invested in even the most basic of Arubian society needs like higher education.
    Perhaps if The Netherlands would spend a few bucks building a real community college, the kids of Aruba would have something better to do than to hang around casinos.
    As it stands now, the gig in that region of the world is to immigrate to Aruba, gain Dutch citizenship, move to The Netherlands and go on Dutch welfare which is extremely generous. No wonder, The Netherlands is passing laws to curtail immigration from The Netherland Antilles and Aruba.

  131. PackerFanGirl says:

    This thought occurred to me for the first time this a.m. Let’s say miraculously and against all odds, JVS alone or with others is charged with murder and tried. First off, does the Aruban justice(???) system use a jury or does a judge decide at the end of the trial whether the defendants are guilty or innocent? Does anyone know? My point is think about that, do you trust either to find him guilty even if they had ample evidence? I guess we never think that far ahead because from all appearances, we have no reason to believe they will ever charge, try, much less convict anyone. Any thoughts on this or knowledge of Aruban “trials”?

  132. Justice4All says:

    Okay, this is typical, let’s blame the victim and accuse a family that was not even on the island at the time. Jug and Beth, I think you should let her rip with the info you have, it can’t hinder an investigation that is non-existant. Beth, Jug, Dave, and the entire Holloway family, you have America and the world are behind you. Give Natalee to her family NOW
    and let the truth be told.

  133. Justice4All says:

    Okay, this is typical, let’s blame the victim and accuse a family that was not even on the island at the time. Jug and Beth, I think you should let her rip with the info you have, it can’t hinder an investigation that is non-existant. Beth, Jug, Dave, and the entire Holloway family, you have America and the world are behind you. Give Natalee to her family NOW
    and let the truth be told.

  134. Debra - Boston, MA says:

    Unfortunately Americans are TOO SELF-CENTERED to get behind the family and stay out of Aruba. But you’ll never see that with selfish Americans, never!

  135. grimer11 says:

    ARUBA IS FILLED WITH DANGEROUS, LYING GARBAGE.

  136. cita says:

    And to think of all the money I have sent to Russia to help the little Russian children escape their desolate, poverty-stricken, hopeless little lives…were you a benefactor of that money, Moscow Girl? If so, I want a refund!! Don’t you have other things to worry about in the USSR, like economic disaster and Putin sending your country headfirst into WWIII? By the way, I know that illiteracy is rampant in your country, but the correct spelling is America, not Amerika. http://www.dictionary.com. Use it.
    Posted by: BamaMom | July 6, 2005 02:14 AM
    BAMAMOM- get another purpose in life… You’re calling other people lowlifes?! Funny to hear you saying something about being low. You could buy food for a year for Arubans for a year with your pocketchange? You don’t sound like a well educated person, where did you get the money from? You’re apparantly proud of your own stupidiness, you’re a frikking joke. The Russian hopeless little lives.. I truly feel sorry for those kids who cant do anything but accept their fate.. BUT I FEEL MORE SORRY FOR YOUR CHILDREN, WHO ARE BEING RAISED BY A MONSTER OF A MOM. Maybe the best thing is to laugh at people like you, but for some reason it makes me so sad inside. Nothing you will ever say will ever have any value for me, since you have shown you’re stupid, shallow mind.. pathetic little woman.

  137. abby says:

    Hi,
    I think that in trying to question the Holloway family members, they probably did not accuse them of a crime. Their line of questioning probably focused on attacking Natalee’s character, such as asking “Did she run away?” I think that at this point, we can probably see that Natalee Holloway did not disappear on her own accord. But, having no leads, the Aruban authorities might be led to asking her family questions about her character. That would make me mad too. There is something very fishy in the waters or Aruba, I hope this does affect their tourism. Maybe then they will realize that they are not Columbo down there. My best to helping find Natalee! Donate to the search fund if you can!

  138. Kap says:

    Rooby Rooby Doo!
    I mean seriously, can that paper be anymore irresponsible? How dare they blame the FBI when the FBI has been shunned by the Aruban police? BTW, Arubans are dumb enough NOT to think that the FBI has more than likely ALREADY questioned the chaperones and her fellow classmates about Natalee’s actions that FATEFUL night.
    I’m in the process of writing that rag an email. I remember a Louie Anderson stand up where he was talking about dumb people or people that annoy you, that you shoot them with a freeze gun instead of a real gun, that way for example, if someone cut you off on the highway you could hit them with the freeze gun. The freeze gun needs to be used on the Aruban police so REAL police people can do REAL police work to get this thing solved.
    The Aruban police screwed up royally in the beginning and it’s obvious to any intelligent form of life that this was done by the police chief in order to help his BEST FRIEND’s son get rid of evidence. There is a massive cover-up going on, the Holloway’s KNOW it, and I’m one that hopes they blow the lid off this case and show what the world what Aruba is REALLY ALL ABOUT.

  139. Kap says:

    Rooby Rooby Doo!
    I mean seriously, can that paper be anymore irresponsible? How dare they blame the FBI when the FBI has been shunned by the Aruban police? BTW, Arubans are dumb enough NOT to think that the FBI has more than likely ALREADY questioned the chaperones and her fellow classmates about Natalee’s actions that FATEFUL night.
    I’m in the process of writing that rag an email. I remember a Louie Anderson stand up where he was talking about dumb people or people that annoy you, that you shoot them with a freeze gun instead of a real gun, that way for example, if someone cut you off on the highway you could hit them with the freeze gun. The freeze gun needs to be used on the Aruban police so REAL police people can do REAL police work to get this thing solved.
    The Aruban police screwed up royally in the beginning and it’s obvious to any intelligent form of life that this was done by the police chief in order to help his BEST FRIEND’s son get rid of evidence. There is a massive cover-up going on, the Holloway’s KNOW it, and I’m one that hopes they blow the lid off this case and show what the world what Aruba is REALLY ALL ABOUT.

  140. PackerFanGirl says:

    well said kap. bamamom, I guess cita did not read Moscow Girl’s email b4 reading your response or she is like all others, ignore the trashing of us but defend the trashing of any other country.

  141. Chrystal says:

    That was some post by “Moscow Girl”. Calling people rednecks because they are from the South is clearly biased and stereotypical. Sending posts from here to Aruba – wow the KGB is still alive. Sorry we have free speech here. As for you taking Russians there – great. They launder plenty of money there anyway. And they are such wonderful, compassionate, educated people …as I have seen over here in Brighton Beach (NOT)..your obvious hatred and ignorance and tattle tailing tells me all I need to know about you. Loser.

  142. bobup says:

    Piss off the FBI, I never seen that work very well for anyone, these dutch/aruban officials have set a new standard for IDIOT

  143. Vulcan says:

    I’m totally sickened by the events of the last month. However, noone should be surprised by the outcome. The handwriting on how this investigation would go was on the wall from the beginning. I grieve with the Holloway & Twitty families, & pray that the Lord will give them strength. And, as for the anti-American sentiment, feel free to throw your daggers. We’re used to it. We LOVE our country & will give our lives to protect our freedoms. Oh, and by the way, we’ll give our lives to protect yours as well. God Bless the USA!

  144. Berry says:

    If the prime suspect cannot be supported by any real evidence of a crime, it is long past time to start looking elsewhere. It’s obvious Natalee’s family was on the island with her – at least her twin male cousins were.
    If she did get back to the hotel or close by, whom might she encouter? Most likely a member of her 124 person tour group. All alibis should have been checked by now. IMO, the plane load of Mountainbrook travelers whould never have been allowed to leave Aruba, until full interviews were conducted.
    If the 17 yr old is not the answer – then obviously someone else is.

  145. BigAl says:

    You people are all REALLY screwed up!!
    Stop bashing eachothers country! This is not about America or Russia or the Netherlands or ARUBA.
    This is about a missing girl in a tiny island….
    Everything I read on these kinds of websites and news channels are ridiculous!! There are som MANY false rumors out there that are being used as fact by you guys!
    There are no known truths out there. The only facts in this case are the ones that are DIRECTLY released by the prosecutors of Aruba.
    NOTHING ELSE is true..Everything else is false and fake and just a bad rumour!!!
    Everyone must STOP speculatin anf then believing there own CRAZY theories as the truth…
    JUST relax and the ARUBAN police will hopefully have an answer….
    Its only been a little over a month….Many cases like this take MUCH, MUCH, MUCH longer to solve here in our U.S…
    Here in our U.S., we can not detain a suspected criminal until the evidence has been collected…Here in the U.S., Joran Van Der SLUT would be walking freely until there is a case against him. And that could take months!
    The Aruban System of detainment is a lot better then OURS!! Are you guys dumb or don’t know our system!
    Hoe many times have you heard that a man could not be arrested here in the U.S. because of lack of evidence..Then 1 week later, that same man commits another crime…This can not happen in Aruba….A person that is suspected in a crime can be detained and held without any evidence!
    GROW UP PEOPLE and stop taking false info and making it fact!!@!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  146. grimer11 says:

    IF YOU ARE UNFORTUNATE ENOUGH TO FIND YOURSELF IN ARUBA, BE SURE TO WEAR A GPS TRACKING DEVICE, SO THE FBI CAN FIND YOUR BODY, AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN DRUGGED, “CARVED OUT”, GANG RAPED, AND MURDERED.

  147. BigAL says:

    grimer11:
    Are you retarded or something?????
    So many dumb people on this website!!! You think its easy to find a missing person..
    Why don’t you look at some recent cases here in the U.S…Dumbass!
    Some missing people cases never get solved..Hundreds have not gotten solved here in the U.S. and other bigger countries..
    You think its easy to find a body that has been chopped up and disposed of???
    Morons like you should rot.

  148. Dirk says:

    This has been going on for too long, it is time for me to react to some of the b***t I have been reading on this board. I will try to explain the misconceptions I find here, item by item. (my personal view)
    First I am from the Netherlands, not from Holland. (Dutch people will understand this one)
    Americans
    As an European, I love Americans, as a part of the allied forces they liberated us from the nazi regime and we are eternally grateful for that.
    What we don’t like is your current politics and leader, we don’t think with the current actions taken in Iraq has made the world a safer place. But don’t worry, as soon as Hillary is president, someone with a realistic worldview, this all will change.
    Aruban legal system
    The Aruban legal system is adapted from the Dutch. Many of us here think that this system is superior over the American legal system. ( we can be patriots too ) But ask yourself this: Is it really a coincidence that the International Court of Justice and the UN war tribunal are located in the Netherlands?
    Corruption on Aruba
    I tried to look it up in the corruption transparency index. Aruba is not on the list, but the Netherlands is. The Netherlands is no 10 of least corrupt counties. The US stand at 17th place. And because there are still a lot of Dutch people on the island and it used to be a Dutch colony and it is still a Dutch protectorate and is also part of our Kingdom, I expect the corruption over there does not differ that much from than that from The Netherlands. Now for the people who don’t take vacations in corrupt countries, you better stay home because there aren’t many. But your very welcome to The Netherlands, a country less corrupt than US of A.
    Drugs in Aruba
    Yes, Aruba is a thoroughfare for drugs en route to the US. But the only reason for that is that there is such a huge demand in the US. And with the high profits made on drugs, the drug smugglers will always find a way to get to this market. If the aruban authorities succeed in stopping this, the drug price in the US will go up, users have to steal more to pay for their addiction, crime will go up, more criminals get arrested, more people get incarcerated. In Europe we already understand that a war on drugs does not work, when will the US?
    Money laundering
    The Dutch invented the banking system and the stock market and is still a strong player in the financial sector all over the world. So it is not surprising that some of our know how will be used for money laundering. But is money laundering such a bad thing? If want to buy drugs, weapons and other illegal stuff, I don’t need white money.
    I need white money to invest in legit business. So at least some of the money made with drugs is flowing back into the US economy. And again money laundering wouldn’t be an issue if there was not such a huge drugs market in the US.
    The case
    All I read on this board is speculation, because it is a closed investigation nobody outside the system knows what is happening inside. Isn’t that frustrating? So you start to speculate, speculate, speculate. Speculation about corruption, where is your proof?
    Speculation that the brothers had anything to do with the disapearance, where is your proof? Speculation that Joran is guilty, where is your proof? As long as the prosecution does not come out with all the details, the only thing you can do is speculate. And I must say your getting very good at it, Fox news is getting very good at it, Beth Twitty is getting very good at it, but really, nobody knows.
    Beth Twitty,
    I feel very sorry for what happened to Natalee, whatever happened to her. I can understand her frustration and I also understand that she wants the brothers to stay on the island. But justice has spoken, the brothers are free. What I don’t understand is why fox news is showing this irrational video over and over again. It is like asking other countries to defy the Aruban law.
    But I have to say that otherwise she is doing a good job, by trying to lure all the news stations to this little island and making this boring case look interesting.
    Jug Twitty
    Again speculation, what did the police ask him? Where were you at the time of the crime? I don’t think so. More likely they would have asked: Has Natalee ever before not come home after a party. How is her relationship with her Mother? , did they argue a lot? But now I am speculating. But I am happy to see that the police is also investigating other possibilities. I think under the pressure from the international, oops sorry, American media they developed tunnel vision by focusing only on Joran.
    Joran
    Did he lie, Yes. Did he change his story a couple of times, Yes. Did he kill her, we don’t know. But without a body or forensic evidence it will be hard to convict him even in the US. All he has to do is keep his mouth shut.
    But you have to give it to Joran, I read that Joran the morning after the disapearance had an exam and he aced it. Can you image somebody committing a horrible crime for the first time in his life, and afterwards disposing of the body, to go to school a few hours later and ace his exam? I can’t, either he did not do it or he is really the Iceman. BTW is it normal for a seventeen year old to drink. In Europe we are not that uptight about alcohol, we see it as a social thing. It is normal in france that the children get wine mixed with water during dinner. Legal drinking age in The Netherlands is 16, but most parents let their children drink some beer mixed with seven-up before that age. We try to learn them to drink responsible.
    Boycott Aruba,
    The silliest thing I heard on this board. With all the media attention it gets tourism to Arub will increase, haven’t you seen the beautifull beaches? Every expert will say negatative media attention is still media attention, and in a year or so everybody forgets about the case but they still remember “paradise” “party island” “white beaches” Think about the runaway bride, the american media made her an instant super star, people like to forget the bad things.
    And finally Fox news
    Wake up, Fox news is not a news channel. If you had to compare Fox news to a restaurant, fox new would be mc Donalds. Sure it is popular and you can eat there, but if it is the only place where you eat you miss out on a lot of nutrients, you grow fat and you die soon.
    What they serve on Fox news is easy digestable brain food, we serve what you like. If our ratings are up on a certain subject, we serve it again and again. We will milk this cow untill the customers are fed up with it. Then we will find another dish, not that it is good for you but because you like it. Fox news is probably the most unreliable news source in the world because they only tell you what you like. Especially that oversexed self-righteous bastard Bill “lookatmeandIknowitbetter”O reilly is a real hamburger.
    God bless France

  149. BigAL says:

    grimer11:
    Are you retarded or something?????
    So many dumb people on this website!!! You think its easy to find a missing person..
    Why don’t you look at some recent cases here in the U.S…Dumbass!
    Some missing people cases never get solved..Hundreds have not gotten solved here in the U.S. and other bigger countries..
    You think its easy to find a body that has been chopped up and disposed of???
    Morons like you should not be allowed to talk. They should be locked up in a psychiatric ward somewhere!

  150. PackerFanGirl says:

    Big Al, just for the record, each time the prosecution in Aruba wants to hold a suspect they need more and more evidence. The bar is higher each time. That is not exactly holding them without evidence.
    I agree this is about a missing girl. I disagree that we should trust the Aruba law enforcement/justice system, too many things have just too obviously gone wrong, been done wrong and more, if you have been here for a time, you know the reasons for those feellings.
    As far as trashing countries, I do not like it either but like so many here, I will not sit back and take it when someone trashes us without anyone of us instigating it or engaging them in trashing any country.
    I respect your post and agree with some of it and the above are just my feelings and you are certainly entitled to yours, some of which I do agree with.

  151. BigAL says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Yes they do need evidence as it goes on…
    But in our U.S. system these people would be walking free..Joran would NOT be in jail right now, if this was a U.S. case.
    And all these people have to stop saying that they know what happened!
    NOTHING is known..There are no FACTS that were made public to us…Only 3 or 4 things in the beginning…Once again, If you DID not here it from the prosecutors, then it is NOT fact..STOP THIS NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  152. grimer11 says:

    I KNOW THERE ARE 3 EMPTY CELLS IN ARUBA WHICH HAD BEEN OCCUPIED BY ACCESSORIES TO MURDER.

  153. Bartholomew says:

    Well, if I ever had any doubts the entire society of Aruba was collectively responsible for the cover-up those doubts are gone now. The LE and judicial system has made one mistake after another. Islanders have lied throughout this whole process and nobody gets charged with obstruction of justice – nor has anybody come forward with information to help Beth get her daughter back.
    Now, they are attacking the victim’s mother. Oh, brother!

  154. bobup says:

    This has really got me wondering just how valuable this van der sloot gang is, they must really have some dirt on somebody, a real interogation by the FBI, DEA or CIA might in order for national security, maybe OBL uses bank’s there

  155. bobup says:

    BigAl: WRONG If the FBI would have had control from the start all but the trial would be over, crawl back under your rock

  156. ohmygod says:

    Bamamom, you are just stupid

  157. Bartholomew says:

    Aruba blaming the FBI. Like, the FBI had total control of this investigation from the start and is responsible for the mistakes made.
    This island deserves to lose every dime of it’s tourism – they can always fall back on their drug money.

  158. BigAL says:

    bobup:
    Another STUPID comment by an ignorant person:
    Why dont you look at some of the cases her in the U.S…Some were on the news recently!!
    Some cases take MONTHS if not years to solve..Some murders go unsolved for years..And some missing cases NEVER go solved..
    You are really stupid if you actually meant you last post…
    REALLLYYYY stupid!!!

  159. ohmygod says:

    Bamamom, you are just stupid

  160. Arubian says:

    Hey Thanks for making me laugh this morning people with all this ignorance. Especially Bamamom. I’ll give you my bank account number to you via e-mail so you can give me and my poor family a donation.
    Yeeaahhhh rrrright!!! Hahaha!!!

  161. bobup says:

    FREEDOM OF THE PRESS sickem Foxnews

  162. PackerFanGirl says:

    Big Al: I disagree. Joran would be in jail right now in the US as since he was the last person to be seen with NH, first he would have been interrogated right off the bat not days and days and days later, second in a decent interrogation such as by the FBI, they would have immediately found the cracks and the difference in the stories between he and the brothers and he would have cracked, third when they did so they would have had enough for a search warrant, fourth, they would have found all evidence needed, specifically forensics and phone calls and would have triangulated cell phone calls to see where everyone was when making them, etc., etc., etc. INSTEAD of allowing all the time in the world for the last person seen with her to get rid of any and all evidence and these are just a FEW reasons they would have enough to have him in jail and held and charged.
    And b4 you say it, I am not saying there has never been a botched investigation in the US but had the FBI been involved, the types of mistakes and the sheer numbers of them would never have been made. If you prefer to think what is going on is not corrupt, fine, but then take the Arubans’ own admission of their lack of expertise and handling such a case and tell me why to trust them when they admit that but did not avail themselves of all expertise available.
    I am glad you trust the Aruba system, I have tried to from the start give them the benefit of the doubt when things looked funny right off and I managed to keep that hope alive for a long time but like most others here now, the initial suspicion caused by things like not questioning the last seen with her right away and not for days, arresting the wrong people and keeping them a long time even when it should have quickly been obvious they had the wrong people BASED on the words of the last person seen with her, etc. just is confirmed over and over and over when they do one thing after another that points to nothing but corruption and coverup.
    I respect your right to your opinion, please respect mine and everyone else’s. No offense intended.

  163. Bartholomew says:

    In the U.S. you are innocent until proven guilty. In Aruba, you are innocent until it is proven you lied to police to cover up a crime – then you are released to go on with your life like nothing happened!

  164. tracker says:

    “I will not go to Aruba. They don’t have any right to be asking Americans questions. We are the ones with the money and we should spend it in the places where the people are appreciative and humble.”
    “hey teen, you americans are not the only ones that have money to spend in Aruba, we got the rusians, chinese, and europeans that want to come here to spend money, so keep your mouth shut”
    Posted by: lesmes | July 6, 2005 07:43 AM
    lesmes >
    “teen” DOES-NOT have to shut up at your direction.
    If aruba wants to welcome international criminals they are welcome to. And they have been.
    Go ask your Mommy to change your diapers.

  165. Peacekeeper says:

    @Dirk.. Thanx! Now that is a statement.

  166. Arubian says:

    I see the level of discussion here is that of a total flame war, in which most people would’ve been banned already if they were acting like this in a moderated forum.

  167. Big Pappy says:

    My thoughts…
    Kalpoes simply covering for Van Der Sloots. I look at those boys and just don’t think they have involvement beyond that. Stupid either way but I can see fear in those boys eyes. I do believe their lives will be changed forever. Changing who they hang with, using less gang signs in photos etc. :)
    The more I look at it, the more it just seems that Joran made a huge mistake and his father got involved to help him. I can’t imagine being a father and my son being suspect for a missing girl and telling him “it’s ok, no body, no case”, this is not a normal response and can’t be attributed to difference in language.
    And what about the reports that Joran went home and snuck out again. If he snuck out, why would he call his father from McDonalds, don’t know, maybe I’m not getting all those details right.

  168. BigAL says:

    packerfangirl:
    Like I have just said; You dont know ANY facts in this case…Nothing you hear on the news or here is true…
    HOW do you know that they dont have answers???
    How do you know that Natalee is not alive???
    YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING! So for anyone to say that the Aruban LE has nothing or has done things wrong is ONCE again retarded and moronic!!
    HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY HAVE NOTHING???????????????HOW??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  169. Big Pappy says:

    Dirk, NO BLOVIATING!!!!! PITHY COMMENTS ONLY!!!!

  170. PackerFanGirl says:

    Arubian, according to Arubans, tourism has not been affected and Americans have not stopped visiting your island, yet. Most of us plan trips months in advance and cancellations are always not refundable especially with so many “charter” type flights to your little paradise so we will see how that turns out.
    But anyhow, there are plenty of Americans so you say down there for you to dare go up to and talk like you do IF you dare or IF you are even Arubian or Aruban and you will be protected as YOUR law enforcement moves fast if you have trouble, we have seen that. This web site is owned by an American, go find an Aruban one where you can talk with those of your own or who have your views. What I really do not understand is if you are in such an island paradise what the heck you are doing inside posting. Why are you not outside enjoying your paradise? Better yet, why are you not outside looking for Natalee? Such a caring decent bunch of people you are.
    And to those trashing America it is so funny you would even think about sticking up for Joran who by all accounts was obsessed with America–American women, Paris Hilton and coming to America for college…. The absolute ignorance and hypocrisy is overwhelming.

  171. BigAL says:

    packerfangirl:
    Like I have just said; You dont know ANY facts in this case…Nothing you hear on the news or here is true…
    HOW do you know that they dont have answers???
    How do you know that Natalee is not alive???
    YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING! So for anyone to say that the Aruban LE has nothing or has done things wrong is ONCE again retarded and moronic!!
    HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY HAVE NOTHING???????????????HOW??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  172. bobup says:

    BigAl: I see you have woke up in new world this morning and your learning disability is really showing, so will not waste anymore effort to respond to you

  173. Barbara says:

    This sad case was bungled from the beginning. Logic and intuition have told me all along that Joran knows EXACTLY what happened to Natalee and that it was his father who took over then to make sure Joran would not be accused of any crime. Reading this blogs, one has to weed thru a lot of nonsensical thinking and immature reason. Something happened at the beach. The brothers may know what that was. We need to know the content of the text messages and any email sent by Joran. There never should have been so much time to get rid of evidence. Obviously Paulus was the mind behind how it all was covered up. Authorities may be backing him for reasons of their own. A REAL CRIME WAS COMMITTED. THE GUILTY SHOULD BE PUNISHED. My heart goes out to Natalee’s family because the guilty people involved feel confident they’ve beaten the rap under Aruban law. It’s all been to protect the errant son and the reputations. Aruba is going to be off-limits for not prosecuting this case to the fullest. DON’T GIVE UP – those of you who are committed to seeing justice!! Barbara

  174. grimer11 says:

    ARUBIANS JUST WANT NEWS OF SANCTIONED RAPE AND MURDER TO “GO AWAY”….THEIR EXPOSED CRIMINALITY AND CLANNISHNESS IS BECOMING “COSTLY”…..HUMAN LIFE MEANS NOTHING TO THESE CANNIBALS.

  175. BigAL says:

    packerfangirl:
    Like I have just said; You dont know ANY facts in this case…Nothing you hear on the news or here is true…
    HOW do you know that they dont have answers???
    How do you know that Natalee is not alive???
    YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING! So for anyone to say that the Aruban LE has nothing or has done things wrong is ONCE again retarded and moronic!!
    HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THEY HAVE NOTHING???????????????HOW??????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  176. BigAL says:

    And how do you know that Joran told the Aruban police that the Kalpoe brothers had nothing to do with it???
    Like I just said, Grow up, you dont know anything
    !!!!!!!!!!!
    All these consiracies and lies have to stop!

  177. wreck says:

    Have a Prozac BIGAL, you’re going to have a coronary. Get off the ledge!

  178. Big Pappy says:

    PackerFanGirl and BigAl, GET A ROOOOOOOOOM!

  179. gabe says:

    No one in this case is pure, including Natalee. She was an adult tourist, behaving badly, on foreign soil. The Aruba authorities have been kind to her family by not bringing any of this out in the open. However, the Holloway Twittys do not play fair and the Aruban authorities are fighting back. It is extremely curious that so many of Natalee’s friends watched her go and no one made any attempt to stop her. Friends do not let friends get into cars in a strange land with three men. That is unless the person has a history of this sort of behavior. Just as Joren has lied to his parents, so has Natalee lied to hers. It is the nature of the teenaged beast.

  180. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Arubans protesting the American press are crucifying their future. At least no one else should be fooled into letting their children loose on such a corrupt place. Aruba reminds me of the snake devouring its own tail.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    You have no right. This is the first time ever Aruba had to deal with such situation. Every minute a girl is raped and murdered in the U.S., what makes Aruba different? One girl in a decade?
    We have a tourist couple coming here for 37 years and they never had an unpleasant experience.
    You can’t blame the island for a girl’s wrong decision. I’m not the one the judge, but who in their right mind is going to step into a car with 3 strangers at 1:30 in the morning?
    Certainly not an Aruban girl.

  181. BigAl says:

    Bobup:
    Honestly, you are the stupidest person on this website..
    I have been reading these threads for a long time and you top the list!
    Dont tell me anything! You are not worth any of our time!
    You make stupid comments…You think that a case is easy to solve and that the Americans or the FBI would have solved this already! retard! just a really BIG reatard!@

  182. Arubian says:

    Ok Packerfangirl,
    We’ll make a deal. I’ll go search for Natalee, and you’ll go search for the tens of thousands of people missing in the U.S.
    deal?

  183. Spike says:

    Gabe.. not clear that NH was “behaving badly”. It seems likely she was the victim of some asshole putting a date rape drug into her drink.

  184. PackerFanGirl says:

    BIGGGGGGGGGGGGG Al:
    Enough caps in your posts? There are some things that ARE fact and corroborated by many SUCH (caps) as Natalee getting in the car with the 3, SUCH as the story of her being dropped off at the front of the Holiday Inn (corroborated by videos showing no such drop off). FACT: Papa VDS saying no body, no crime, taped on a tapped phone call. FACT: People last seen with NH not even questioned for days and then questioned and released. FACT: From Papa VDS himself as well as investigator, he gave one statement when brought in and WAS NOT interrogated. Done talking to you, good luck finding someone to talk to who shares your views. At least I tried to respect your opinion on some of your points and politely disagreed on others. BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

  185. duncan4USA says:

    Idaho is the best place to hid, FBI, will never catch me..

  186. Dove says:

    I still believe the Bird Sanctuary should be checked. It is near the hotel zone, and would be a perfect place to leave a semi-concious person or a dead body.

  187. mrperfect says:

    my personal opinion is that the aruban government is covering something up ? or maybe they have all the edvedence they need to hang this kid and we just don’t know because they don’t relese it to the press like we do

  188. Kap says:

    grimer11 – RIGHT ON!
    Keep the truth coming…..

  189. gemebwai says:

    Polarization is only getting worse on this blog. I would like to ask Dan: Do you really want “american only” posters on this blog? Or is PackerFanGirl out of line by stating sending Arubans to their “own” blog?
    As a response to the intro for this thread, I think the police is right in ALSO investiging the family. Statistically the chances are bigger that family is involved than outsider in a MISSING PERSON case (no proof as we know yet that it’s more than that is there?). That the family was not on the island when NH went missing does not exculde them from any wrongdoing. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t say they did anything wrong, although I find some of their actions strange. To me, if the police is ivestigating (not acusing w/o reasonable suspicion) the family, it seems to me they are simply trying to do a good job. I’m sure the police/FBI in the US would do the same.

  190. mrperfect says:

    i think if the FBI was on the case it would have been solved and we would all have nothing to talk about any more !

  191. Americanidiot says:

    Has anyone given the notion that perhaps is one of Nat’s own fellow students that could have done so? Kids at that age do a lot to conceal their excesses, including murder, or kidnapping? Colleges yearly have mysterious deaths, and its all shoved under the headline of HAZING! I believe the students, including the Chaparone need to be interrogated, and not ‘brushed’ of by the FBI. Look at Shasta Groene, the so called FBI was hot on the case…yeah right.

  192. Spike says:

    This “article” in the Aruba press… is no different than a story coming out of DC testing public sentiment about some political issue.
    The fact is that this case has considerable coverage, and it’s not going away until Aruba resolves the case to the reasonable satisfaction of the US public… that public, with US greenbacks, who would otherwise elect to visit (or not) the “save island” called Aruba.
    Until then, their tourism and economy is in jeopardy…

  193. Kap says:

    Gabe – what evidence do you have Natalee was acting bad? None. Zero. Zippy. The last time I checked, the legal drinking age is 18 in Aruba. Natalee is 18. She was drinking responsibly, according to ALL witness accounts of that night. Stop the smear campaign loser! I bet you get your rocks off trying to smear the VICTIM in this case. She was doing NOTHING wrong!
    Get a life before I end yours.

  194. Arubian says:

    “I still believe the Bird Sanctuary should be checked. It is near the hotel zone, and would be a perfect place to leave a semi-concious person or a dead body.”
    It has been checked already. They haven’t found anything.

  195. grimer11 says:

    NO MORE WAMPUM…..MANY,MANY MOONS….LET ARUBIANS CARVE OUT, RAPE, AND DEAL DRUGS AMONGST THEIR RIDICULOUS,CRIMINAL SELVES.

  196. PackerFanGirl says:

    Arubian:
    You betcha although you should find NH a lot quicker. We have many millions of people in the US, what you got, about 70,000 in the entire nation? So naturally just by ratio there would be more missing. What are you about 16 miles long? That is about the distance between my city and the next in one huge state out of 50 states. But you guys can’t find her. But we search for our own and those of others. We had a Utah boy missing a few weeks ago in the Utah wilderness/mountains, VAST area and search teams did not give up and they actually found him, ALIVE. So I really don’t know what the problem is down there. Anyhow, it’s a deal. At least we don’t say we have “no crime”. We know why you have “no crime”. They would have to investigate to charge someone with one. Go talk to Big Al. I believe he is your investigator who is Joran’s godfather the way he is defending your inept corrupt law enforcement.

  197. Rach says:

    Is duncan4usa a pshyco?

  198. BigAl says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Did you hear the tape of Paul Van der Sloot saying “no body, no crime”????
    No you didnt…
    Were you in the interrogation room when he was questioned?? No you werent…
    Once again, Internet and false media reports taken as fact…
    What we speculate is not fact..People here dont know the difference between rumor or speculation and the truth.
    A freak named Shango makes comments while he’s tripping on LSD and people on here and scared monkeys are trying to decipher it and use it as fact.
    Then one person makes false claims and they too are used as facts!

  199. BigAl says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Did you hear the tape of Paul Van der Sloot saying “no body, no crime”????
    No you didnt…
    Were you in the interrogation room when he was questioned?? No you werent…
    Once again, Internet and false media reports taken as fact…
    What we speculate is not fact..People here dont know the difference between rumor or speculation and the truth.
    A freak named Shango makes comments while he’s tripping on LSD and people on here and scared monkeys are trying to decipher it and use it as fact.
    Then one person makes false claims and they too are used as facts!

  200. Big Pappy says:

    Big Al, you spelled retard wrong. Just an FYI.

  201. BigAl says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Did you hear the tape of Paul Van der Sloot saying “no body, no crime”????
    No you didnt…
    Were you in the interrogation room when he was questioned?? No you werent…
    Once again, Internet and false media reports taken as fact…
    What we speculate is not fact..People here dont know the difference between rumor or speculation and the truth.
    A freak named Shango makes comments while he’s tripping on LSD and people on here and scared monkeys are trying to decipher it and use it as fact.
    Then one person makes false claims and they too are used as facts!

  202. Bartholomew says:

    Arubans,
    You are wrong. We all know this. But, if you want it to all go away – just give Natalle back to her family. She was your guest and three of your locals took her and did something with her. If you want an object for your anger direct it at the Van Der Sloots and your government and demand they tell what they did with Natallee.
    It’s that simple.
    Blaming the FBI and Beth is just making you look foolish.

  203. allen says:

    You have no right. This is the first time ever Aruba had to deal with such situation. Every minute a girl is raped and murdered in the U.S., what makes Aruba different? One girl in a decade?
    We have a tourist couple coming here for 37 years and they never had an unpleasant experience.
    You can’t blame the island for a girl’s wrong decision. I’m not the one the judge, but who in their right mind is going to step into a car with 3 strangers at 1:30 in the morning?
    Certainly not an Aruban girl.
    Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | July 6, 2005 10:27 AM
    __________________________________________________________________________
    Thanx Disappointed Arubian for the clarification on Arubian culture. So let me get this straight. If the victim is foolish, or makes a mistake and get’s into a car with 3 strangers (now who might they be?), it’s ok to penalize or brutalize the stranger, because she should have known better? Puleeze, that attitude if it’s prevalent (and I don’t believe it is) in Aruba is like a license to kill. Victimizing the victim….again and again. People get into cars driven by strangers every day at 1:30 in the morning in Aruba…the strangers drive taxis. Should these people know better too? If so thanks for the tip.

  204. BigAl says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Did you hear the tape of Paul Van der Sloot saying “no body, no crime”????
    No you didnt…
    Were you in the interrogation room when he was questioned?? No you werent…
    Once again, Internet and false media reports taken as fact…
    What we speculate is not fact..People here dont know the difference between rumor or speculation and the truth.
    A freak named Shango makes comments while he’s tripping on LSD and people on here and scared monkeys are trying to decipher it and use it as fact.
    Then one person makes false claims and they too are used as facts!
    I am from NY..I am a proud American…I am a republican and support Bush and my country…So please nobody say that I am anti-american. I am a realist with common sense.

  205. NevadaMom says:

    Dirk,
    Joran appears to be a sociopath, read the literature, it is not a trait developed by any one country. He aced his exams because he is smart, it has nothing to do with his social skills (or lack of). Did you look at his body language, smirking and cocky? Why didn’t any of his family or the Kalpoes help search? Hmmm, they knew she couldn’t be found. This is not an international incident yet, but comments like yours just cement hatred. The Aruban police broke all the laws of a successful investigation, this does not mean the jsutice system is poor, just that the investigators obviously made mistakes or were paid or deliberatley looked the other way. Ten days were given to the Kalpoes and Joran to dispose of or remove traces of a crime. Would you approve of that if it was your loved one in the Netherlands? Joran is definitely guilty, just like OJ and he will probably get off just like OJ. Since you like France, so much ask them to help the next time you need liberation.
    What would you do if Natalee was your loved one?

  206. Kap says:

    Are people really that stupid to think that the FBI hasn’t already questioned those on the trip with Natalee?
    Get real and wake up morons. The FBI has already eliminated those people as “suspects.” The FBI knows where the crime took place and who did it. The incompetence or “payoff” of the Aruban police force has turned this into a fiasco, NOT Beth Holloway Twitty.

  207. BigAl says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Did you hear the tape of Paul Van der Sloot saying “no body, no crime”????
    No you didnt…
    Were you in the interrogation room when he was questioned?? No you werent…
    Once again, Internet and false media reports taken as fact…
    What we speculate is not fact..People here dont know the difference between rumor or speculation and the truth.
    A freak named Shango makes comments while he’s tripping on LSD and people on here and scared monkeys are trying to decipher it and use it as fact.
    Then one person makes false claims and they too are used as facts!
    I am from NY..I am a proud American…I am a republican and support Bush and my country…So please nobody say that I am anti-american. I am a realist with common sense.

  208. bobup says:

    I see the Dutch/Aruban idiot squad is out in full force today

  209. PackerFanGirl says:

    Gemebwai,
    I did not say for all Arubans to get lost. I said for this one to get lost. If you go through the entire posts of today, you will see where I said I only respond to such things when someone starts trashing us first. Arubian jumped on here and got right on BamaMom who has been posting all day and she jumped right on something in her last email without either reading through all the prior posts to see what BamaMom was responding to or caring about the things said to inflame first b4 BamaMom responded. Likewise, you either have not read my prior posts or some such thing. I will not sit back when attacked first or when someone comes on and attacks someone else either ignoring the things said to them first to inflame or not reading the posts that led to it. Likewise I will not sit back when someone attacks Americans any more than Arubian will sit back if I attack Arubans. This is pretty natural in my opinion.
    I think if Dan reads my posts he will also see this, I only respond in that manner as many do here when attacked first. Even to BigAl above, I started out talking to him respecting his opinion and expected a friendly debate and go back and look at my remarks about respecting his opinion and his response to me.
    If Arubian had got on here and said hi, I’m from Aruba, I care about Natalee and my island is doing everything it can to find her for instance, I would have responded in a friendly manner. Her last post I saw about the bird sanctuary was not inflammatory and I was glad to hear it had been searched and that information from someone who apparently is there and apparently knows is nice to know and I thank her for it.
    I responded to her for attacking BamaMom without provocation, BamaMom was responding to posts made far earlier than Arubian posted and was not saying anything to Arubian to inflame her.
    As of even now, if Arubian has something to say, I am open to changing opinions ALWAYS and responding in the same tone. If it is friendly, I will respond friendly and if it is inflammatory and insulting without prior provocation, I will respond in kind.

  210. Zena says:

    Moscow Girl, no-one could have said it better! Good that you not only gave your views but also sent copies of negative comments to the appropriate people.The mother of the missing girl said on television that she would turn Aruba upside-down and spewed out more venom at the released brothers. (Ignore BamaMom…Americans could not spell even if their lives depended on it).

  211. GrannyToad says:

    “Moscowgirl has issues, and at the core of her problem is jealousy & conflict….
    that is….’she hates us cuz she ain’t us’.”
    Posted by: mrs. MojoRisin’ | July 6, 2005 08:45 AM
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    admittedly off-topic.
    Actually not. Seemingly inexplicably, many (most?) Russians and eastern Europeans, having been brainwashed back through their parents’ and grandparents’ &c generations to be anti-american are cynical and correlate the US to their own perceived inept and corrupt governments and elected officials whom they believe to all have dishonest motives and agendas. As best I can figure (my guess) it’s also partly (greatly?) because they haven’t *invested* roots in having *earned*, fought for, their rights under democracy.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    It is good to be American.
    “Disappeared” is not acceptable. Return Natalee to her parents.

  212. Bartholomew says:

    BigAl,
    Stop calling people stupid when you don’t even know the basic facts. The Aruban prosecutor has confirmed the “no corpse, no crime” comment. By your logic, we wouldn’t believe the earth is round – because we haven’t seen it ourselves.

  213. BigAl says:

    So, smart people:
    How do you know that Joran Van Der Slut didnt say that the Kalpoes are innocent?…
    How do you knoe that Joran did not already confess to a crime and that they are just trying to gather more evidence to arrest others involved.
    Maybe public enemy #1 (Joran) told the truth and thats why the Kalpoes are free. Maybe the Kalpoes said they would testify against Joran (a plea)..Happens all the time here in the U.S….Criminals go free by ratting out and making a plea.

  214. GrannyToad says:

    “Moscowgirl has issues, and at the core of her problem is jealousy & conflict….
    that is….’she hates us cuz she ain’t us’.”
    Posted by: mrs. MojoRisin’ | July 6, 2005 08:45 AM
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    admittedly off-topic.
    Actually not. Seemingly inexplicably, many (most?) Russians and eastern Europeans, having been brainwashed back through their parents’ and grandparents’ &c generations to be anti-american are cynical and correlate the US to their own perceived inept and corrupt governments and elected officials whom they believe to all have dishonest motives and agendas. As best I can figure (my guess) it’s also partly (greatly?) because they haven’t *invested* roots in having *earned*, fought for, their rights under democracy.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    It is good to be American.
    “Disappeared” is not acceptable. Return Natalee to her parents.

  215. GrannyToad says:

    “Moscowgirl has issues, and at the core of her problem is jealousy & conflict….
    that is….’she hates us cuz she ain’t us’.”
    Posted by: mrs. MojoRisin’ | July 6, 2005 08:45 AM
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    admittedly off-topic.
    Actually not. Seemingly inexplicably, many (most?) Russians and eastern Europeans, having been brainwashed [AGITPROPAGANDA] back through their parents’ and grandparents’ &c generations to be anti-american are cynical and correlate the US to their own perceived inept and corrupt governments and elected officials whom they believe to all have dishonest motives and agendas. As best I can figure (my guess) it’s also partly (greatly?) because they haven’t *invested* roots in having *earned*, fought for, their rights under democracy.
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    It is good to be American.
    “Disappeared” is not acceptable. Return Natalee to her parents.

  216. PackerFanGirl says:

    Big Al,
    I started out respecting your right to your opinion and you have responded to me in just the opposite manner.
    I was not going to respond to you again but I will try one more time. I am always open to changing my opinion and I do so daily as this goes on and I find out other things if it is FACT.
    Are you open to hearing this and changing your opinion? You are contradicting yourself on at least one point I can mention right now. You are defending the Aruban law enforcement and justice system and I hope you are right to do that, we all hope you are right and this will end with justice. But here you go, the no body, no crime? I heard it from the PROSECUTOR on TV, not the media’s mouth, HERS. So you defend the justice system but then tell me what she said, a member of that justice system and the prosecutor no less, is not a FACT but a lie?
    Once again, I respect your right to your opinion and I am really done talking to you this time unless you are open to respecting mine.

  217. Dirk says:

    to Nevadamom
    Speculation, speculation, speculation…….

  218. writingal says:

    I can’t believe these comments coming from Aruban citizens. You’re equating the bad decision of an 18-year-old girl who got in a car with three boys (and this may have happened because she was DRUGGED) to the horrible decision of these punks to rape and murder her? Unbelievable.
    Oh wait. This is the same country that let the punks go free for 10 days before hauling their butts to jail! Of course your logic is skewed and your morals are flawed, especially if you’re related to someone in the judicial system over there.

  219. Peacekeeper says:

    @PackerFanGirl: Aruba isn’t a nation as such.
    The Utah boy story is cool, but this is a different type of place, and there is no ocean involved. The inept law enforcement you are talking about is a mediahype, created by FOX…

  220. BigAl says:

    I believe that Joran told the police the truth. I believe he told the police that the Kalpoe brothers had nothing to do with the actual dissapearance of Natalee..And that is the reason they were released…
    I also believe that Natalee was not killed by Joran..I believe in the theory of “sold”…I believe Natalee was alive after May 31st, but is now dead, due to all this press..I also believe that the WHOLE truth will never be found but Joran and a few others will be charged and convicted.
    I believe the Aruban LE already has a lot of evidence and forensics in this case. They just wont tell us about it until the case..Thats just the way they do it there..Cant we just understand that?

  221. BigAl says:

    I believe that Joran told the police the truth. I believe he told the police that the Kalpoe brothers had nothing to do with the actual dissapearance of Natalee..And that is the reason they were released…
    I also believe that Natalee was not killed by Joran..I believe in the theory of “sold”…I believe Natalee was alive after May 31st, but is now dead, due to all this press..I also believe that the WHOLE truth will never be found but Joran and a few others will be charged and convicted.
    I believe the Aruban LE already has a lot of evidence and forensics in this case. They just wont tell us about it until the case..Thats just the way they do it there..Cant we just understand that?

  222. hanskb says:

    Moscow girl is right about a lot of things and besides that, she is an american

  223. BigAl says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Didnt Maria Croes say that “no body” comment? She is a spokeswoman for the prosecutor who has since been replaced.
    Anyway, Nothing is fact until the case evidence is presented or Natalee is found, Dead or alive.
    And I do respect your opinion..You are very logical…I respect many peoples opinions.Opinion being the major word.
    Nothing we hear is fact, just theorie and speculation.

  224. Arubian says:

    Packerfan girl,
    The ratio in the U.S. for inhabitans to missing persons is almost 3000 to 1.
    We have about 100000 inhabitants. At your rate we would have about 33 missing people, which we by far don’t have. But it’s unfair to compare the U.S. to Aruba where that concerns.
    And btw… I’m a guy.

  225. Rachel says:

    Can someone email the F.B.I. and ask THEM why they aren’t more involved? And don’t tell me because Aruba won’t allow it. Joran is not some high ranking official, niether is his dad. This is getting out of hand . No more bashing one another. LETS FIND NATALEE!!!!!!!!

  226. Arubian says:

    Packerfan girl,
    The ratio in the U.S. for inhabitans to missing persons is almost 3000 to 1.
    We have about 100000 inhabitants. At your rate we would have about 33 missing people, which we by far don’t have. But it’s unfair to compare the U.S. to Aruba where that concerns.
    And btw… I’m a guy.

  227. To Hell With Aruba says:

    This is so typical of Arubans – screw up the investigation, intentionally let criminals go, refuse to let FBI handle the investigation and then blame the failure on the FBI and call the Holloway’s Suspects and blame Natalee for the crime.
    Crap on Aruba – the world would be better off without Aruba!

  228. Disappointed Arubian says:

    We Arubians want this case solved too. We DO care.
    Government laborers were given the day off to go looking for her, high schools were closed because they wanted as many people on foot as possible to help in the search for Natalee. I have friends who decided to simply get in a car and go searching on the other side of the island. None of us know this girl, but we do so much to find her.
    We are paying for the Holloway family’s stay here. Since the moment they stepped on this island they’ve been staying here for free. We asked Holland for the F-16’s. Now who do you think is paying for that? Aruba has enough debts and we are now sinking even more into debts because of this.
    And what does the Amercican press do? Instead of showing the world that the Arubians do care they want to make others think that there is some kind of plot going on. The media only wants ‘juicy’ news, they want scandal, they want conspiracies.
    They base their conclusions on speculations, no concrete facts.

  229. bobup says:

    That explain’s BigAl, support’s the Bush/Cheney regime that started a war by lieing, so they could fill the pockets of their buddy’s like Halliburton which have over charged 1 1/2 billion so far not to mention all arms manufacture’s, he’s another self serving, self centered, mepublican that follow’s blindly

  230. Rachel says:

    Can someone email the F.B.I. and ask THEM why they aren’t more involved? And don’t tell me because Aruba won’t allow it. Joran is not some high ranking official, niether is his dad. This is getting out of hand . No more bashing one another. LETS FIND NATALEE!!!!!!!!

  231. BigAl says:

    I have been to Aruba 6 times in the past 4 years..I never knew about any drugs and I have never seen partying in the major hotels by drunk teens.
    Especially at the Marriot..The Marriot Stellaris is one of the best resorts in the world and it caters to the upper class of vacationers. Its an expensive, 5 start, super resort..I find it hard to believe that cancun partying goes on there..VERY hard to believe. Same goes for the Hyatt..Another very expensive, beautiful 5 star Super resort…
    And the Marriot is at the end of the Island..Closer to the lighthouse..Its a very big walk from the Hyatt, Radisson, Aruba Grand, Wyndham..The Holiday Inn is a little closer but not that close. The Marriot is not centrally located in the Aruban resort town..

  232. Bartholomew says:

    Joran appears to be a sociopath
    ——————————–
    Nevadmom,
    I agree. Not even a close call – it’s likely he is a clinical psychopath.

  233. Florida Boy says:

    Chucky3:
    The Arubans have had JVS and the Kaploes for months? Now you have broadened your lies to include obviously inaccurate facts.
    Charles III = Zero Credibility
    But thanks for playing. Don’t forget your door prize.

  234. Bartholomew says:

    Nobody is missing in Aruba. When the media attention goes away Aruba will claim Natallee isn’t missing. Not murdered either – she vanished into thin air! And, how can you blame Aruba for that?

  235. Disappointed Arubian says:

    This is so typical of Arubans – screw up the investigation, intentionally let criminals go, refuse to let FBI handle the investigation and then blame the failure on the FBI and call the Holloway’s Suspects and blame Natalee for the crime.
    Crap on Aruba – the world would be better off without Aruba!
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    “Typical of Arubians”? You don’t know us. Never judge a book by its cover. What do you know about the investigation? NOTHING.
    You don’t know who are the criminals, there is no concrete evidence to prove they did anything. Ofcourse I believe they did it, but just like everywhere else, you can’t imrpison someone based on rumors and speculations. That’s how wrongfull imprisonment happens.

  236. Justice4All says:

    You are so right, it is Great to be American,
    as the brothers say. “better to be hated for who you are than loved for who you’re not…. oh, one more thing. Give Natalee back to her family,
    NOW

  237. Onesweep says:

    America should try to help the moderate Arubans who are pro-American. Remember that is most of them, it is just that the island has been hijaked by a handful of extremeists. We should work with the moderates to have a regime change and bring the extremists to justice.

  238. Minime says:

    Some of you damn people(if that is what you want to call yourselves–more like demons from hell) are cowards and scumbags. You make me sick!
    You have no respect for human life and have no idea what Beth and her family and friends have been going through all this time.
    You obviously don’t care. ! You want to post your lies and garbage here as if it were a game. You are all pathetic ! May you burn in hell! ..And take the scum that did this to Natalee and your sorry Mafia drug controlled government of the Island of Aruba with you!
    I feel sorry for the “true honest citizens” of Aruba. May they overthrow their government there and replace it with decent and respectable people and run all the mafia gang into the ocean with the sharks! Then and only then will you have a “Happy ISLAND”
    And for you Americans and others that are trashing Natalee and her family you should be deported ! It could be your child. What the hell would you do ?? Back off Beth Twitty and Natalee !
    The guilty dog always barks ~ ARUBAN MEDIA ~You know whats going on. DO I SEE A COVERUP, ARUBA=GATE! ???? AHA…….

  239. MiniMe says:

    Some of you damn people(if that is what you want to call yourselves–more like demons from hell) are cowards and scumbags. You make me sick!
    You have no respect for human life and have no idea what Beth and her family and friends have been going through all this time.
    You obviously don’t care. ! You want to post your lies and garbage here as if it were a game. You are all pathetic ! May you burn in hell! ..And take the scum that did this to Natalee and your sorry Mafia drug controlled government of the Island of Aruba with you!
    I feel sorry for the “true honest citizens” of Aruba. May they overthrow their government there and replace it with decent and respectable people and run all the mafia gang into the ocean with the sharks! Then and only then will you have a “Happy ISLAND”
    And for you Americans and others that are trashing Natalee and her family you should be deported ! It could be your child. What the hell would you do ?? Back off Beth Twitty and Natalee !
    The guilty dog always barks ~ ARUBAN MEDIA ~You know whats going on. DO I SEE COVEDRUP, ARUBA=GATE! ???? AHA…….

  240. PackerFanGirl says:

    Peacekeeper,
    You talk as though you are from Aruba. If so, thank you for a nonfinflammatory post. I think a lot of us would like to talk to people in Aruba if we could all talk civilly and realize we all will defend our own people if inflamed. And I respectfully disagree that Fox started the hype about inept law enforcement. I in no way am defending our mainstream media, it has much hype and a lot of problems but where I disagree is the events such as the not securing evidence or the three last seen with Natalee for ten days and many other things like that started all of us thinking everything looked fishy and/or inept long before Fox ever said that. It was on here before Fox ever said it I believe. I could be wrong but I never started thinking that way from anything Fox said, I thought it from the late arrest, the wrong arrest of the guards, the release of the first suspects, the time delay and chance to get rid of evidence, the arrest and release of the father, the rearrest of the first three suspects, etc.
    I respectfully ask if you who are apparently from Aruba can at least understand how we have come to feel that way or think that way or worry that something is wrong? I have not seen one Aruban at least admit on here that they can see where some of us might have come to that conclusion or at least worry that is the case and I would be so impressed if I actually finally saw someone from Aruba who would at least admit they can see why we might feel that way even if you do not agree it is right. I feel as if I admit there are problems in the US but I think much of the animosity here comes from never seeing anyone in Aruba who will say it is not perfect and there may be things in the investigation that at least look as though they should have been handled differently. Anyhow, I really appreciate your friendly non-inflammatory response to me.
    BigAl,
    Thanks for the nicer post. I never once have said anything I believe is not conjecture or speculation when taking facts, my own thoughts and others speculation and trying to come up with what happened. I for one am unsure what I believe happened for a scenario although I believe Joran is guilty (DOES not mean I know that for a fact, just based on the different stories, etc.) It too has occurred to me that Joran has come clean, we would not probably hear about it if he had and it would explain the Kalpoes’ release as none of what we do know supports their release. It too has occurred to me that their law enforcement has more evidence, etc. than we know about but sometimes it is hard to keep that faith.
    As far as it being Maria Croes, I am sure I saw either Nancy Grace or Greta ask Karen Jannsen (probably spelled wrong) if that was the truth and she said it was and the father did say that. If I am wrong, I will change my tune on it and I cannot prove it right now but I swear I remember seeing her and hearing it and I am 99.9 percent sure.

  241. grlfmbama says:

    you arubian freaks keep it coming, i send your comments to the editor of my local paper here and we are going to come up with an idea to let the world know how yall fell about americans. and yall really got alot to be proud of on your little island, no crime cause its all legal, and what crime happens dont get reported? hell, you cant beat that with a stick.

  242. NewYorkCityGirl says:

    Re: Debra – Boston, MA Unfortunately Americans are TOO SELF-CENTERED to get behind the family and stay out of Aruba…
    Bull’s eye: No corpse, no case, no Aruba.
    No Aruba until the Holloway affair is better resolved.
    Americans have always been more generous and forgiving with non-Americans than we have ever been with one another. That’s o.k. We are learning.
    The only way we can possibly help this family is to make Aruba feel it where it hurts the most.
    Aruba stands at a crossroad.
    Aruba does not believe in itself, so naturally, it does not believe America has the will to stay away.
    Let’s help the Holloways, and help Aruba learn to believe. Now!!!

  243. grlfmbama says:

    you arubian freaks keep it coming, i send your comments to the editor of my local paper here and we are going to come up with an idea to let the world know how yall fell about americans. and yall really got alot to be proud of on your little island, no crime cause its all legal, and what crime happens dont get reported? hell, you cant beat that with a stick.

  244. Justice4All says:

    Self-center Americans? Maybe you..Not us.. Bring it on… How many countries would have starved to death…We’re getting real tired of this..Don’t like it here go live somewhere else, Oh do I hear Aruba calling you…

  245. GrannyToad says:

    I’m impressed. Greta van Sustren is REPORTING. Investigative reporting. About the only “bias” I have noticed is the expected focus of finding Natalee Holloway, remaining focused, not abandoning the investigation – period.
    We don’t get much of that anymore. Reporting is not the same as editorializing or opinionating, those are different functions and to be digested differently.
    It isn’t easy to find REPORTING on any global media in any language I read. One always has to take any quotes, facts, photos and try to search out context, delete bias, for oneself.

  246. PackerFanGirl says:

    Arubian:
    It probably is unfair to compare Aruba to the US. I only jumped on you right off because you jumped on BamaMom right off. I am very open to talking in a friendly way.
    Disappointed Arubian:
    Thank you too. You state you believe the boys did the crime (whatever it was). That is something I just have not seen on here stated from anyone in Aruba and I think we need to know there are Arubans there who believe that. You also stated you care about the girl missing. I have not seen that in many, many weeks either. That is all I need to know: to be reminded there are people there that care, that believe those boys or at least the one did it and to talk in a friendly way. We just have not seen that in a long time. We like no better than you do all being tarred with the same brush or the anti-American talk and we are seeing a lot of it at least from people who claim to be from your island.
    I will talk to anyone from any country who talks civilly and simply wants to debate or share information but if someone talks in an inflammatory way I am going to give it back.

  247. grimer11 says:

    the State Department should issue a Travel Advisory for all potential victims headed for Aruba.

  248. Phantom says:

    PackerFanGirl,
    IF, and that’s a huge IF, it goes to trial his (JVDS) innocence or guilt will be decided by the judge who hears the case.

  249. Kap says:

    Big Al – you are a PUTZ!!!!
    Slavery? Get real. Joran didn’t give up any information. Had he given up any real pertinent info, he wouldn’t be grinning like the little punk he is….
    It’s rape, murder and disposal of the body pure and simple. Any police detective would tell you the “obvious” person is more than not the right person. I’ve been around police work, your comments show obviously you haven’t.

  250. bobup says:

    BigAl will be right back he had to find someone to tell him what to think

  251. Manda says:

    Maybe something funny was said in the photo’s. . . Before anyone jumps on me think about it. Do you know what was said in the car? More an likely the answer is no. Maybe he did give up the information needed. No one on this post truely knows.

  252. michele in bham says:

    Some Arubans feel island nation not getting fair shake
    ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) – A latent but growing resentment here became evident for the first time when more than 200 people, some wrapped in Aruban flags, said they were incensed by statements made by the mother of a missing American teen.
    Those assembled outside the colonial courthouse in this Caribbean capital Tuesday night said they fear their tiny island nation is falsely being portrayed as not doing enough to find Natalee Holloway, the Alabama girl who vanished May 30 on a graduation trip with her high school class.
    Two brothers, Deepak Kalpoe, 21, and Satish Kalpoe, 18, who had been held as suspects were released Monday for lack of evidence.
    In a brief and tearful statement Tuesday, Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee’s mother, accused Aruba of letting guilty people free.
    “Two suspects were released yesterday who were involved in a violent crime against my daughter,” she said.
    “These criminals are not only being allowed to walk around among the tourists and citizens of Aruba,” she said, but there were no limits on where they could go.
    The protesters took umbrage with those statements.
    “Respect our Dutch laws or go home,” read one sign. “Innocent until proven guilty,” read another. One suggested the missing girl might not be dead but partying in Brazil or nearby Venezuela.
    There were complaints that some American television coverage unfairly depicted the island, which depends overwhelmingly on tourism, and as being crime- and drug-ridden.
    Though poverty is widespread in the Caribbean, Aruba has an unemployment rate of less than 1 percent and one of the higher standards of living. And it has few worries. Tourism and a major refinery bring in the money. Diplomatic and defense needs, such as they are, are provided by the Netherlands.
    “Have you been treated badly in Aruba?” asked Ramon Garcia, a burly tourist guide. “We are together with the family of Natalee, but we love Aruba too, man. We don’t need these pressures. We are a friendly island.”
    Orlando Flanigan said his country had given “all out hearts, all out cooperation, everything,” to help find Natalee. “It’s time we got some respect back,” he said.
    “They are making us look like a banana republic, he said. “We are an educated and cultured people, many of us speak four or five languages.”
    John Maywether told a growing crowd that Aruba is not an island of criminals. “We have 96 (prison) cells and 53 percent of them are occupied by non-Arubans,” he said.
    “We are here to ask that you trust our legal system,” he said, recalling that Arubans turned out in large numbers for Natalee after she vanished and that prayers were offered for her safe return in local churches.
    Arubans note that local banks raised $20,000 and provided other help to a group of volunteers from Texas, who are still here, could continue their search for the girl.
    But there has been no sign of her. Three F-16 jets sent by the Dutch government were to start flying grid patterns on Wednesday, taking offshore photographs hoping for clues.
    On Monday the courts extended for 60 days the detention of Joran van der Sloot, 17, the son of a judge-in-training, the only person still in detention and possibly the last person to see Natalee Holloway alive.
    After that time he can be released, ordered to trial or detained further.
    Lincoln Gomez, an Oranjestad defense lawyer not connected to the case, said the Kalpoe brothers still could face indictment until they are formally notified that charges won’t be brought.
    http://www.al.com/index.ssf?/mtlogs/bama/archives/000485.html

  253. PackerFanGirl says:

    Thanks Phantom, I asked that question a long, long time ago in here so you apparently read through the posts b4 jumping in. I know it is a big IF but so IF anyone does go to trial it is decided by a judge and not a jury? Is it just one judge who decides? That is kind of scary in itself compared to what we are used to.

  254. AMotherAlso says:

    it’s time to drill down to the lowest common denominators here:
    – Beth Holloway is a mother, a mother trying to do everything she can to find her daughter, dead or alive. Few of us could have kept our composure as well as she has – and the media also applies pressure to Beth as well, not just Aruba. Dealing with the media front-and-center is just plain stressful.
    – Admittedly, Aruba has had few violent crimes or missing persons. As a result they have made mistakes and also not had the level of resources or even skill required (particularly in the beginning)to lead a best practices effort. If new judges are being called in to examine the release of the Kalpoe brothers, well then someone in authority in Aruba or Holland does feel it is a decision warranting examination.
    – Natalee’s family has now lost patience with the system and the authorities, perhaps the result of the stress and also the realization ( particularly when Joran smiles & smirks for the cameras as late as Monday)that they daughter is most likely surely deceased now. How would you fare in similar circumstances? How would anyone?
    – I can state these two things as a mother, something I do think can be identified with globally. I would do or try anything I could think of (within legal limits) to find my daughter. That is a primal need that drives us, to know we did all that we could to save our child. Two, I would KNOW in my heart that patterns of behavior matter, that a girl who was obedient and mature in her studies and behavior, does not suddenly abandon that behavior in an instant due to Joran’s lovely smile.

  255. AMotherAlso says:

    it’s time to drill down to the lowest common denominators here:
    – Beth Holloway is a mother, a mother trying to do everything she can to find her daughter, dead or alive. Few of us could have kept our composure as well as she has – and the media also applies pressure to Beth as well, not just Aruba. Dealing with the media front-and-center is just plain stressful.
    – Admittedly, Aruba has had few violent crimes or missing persons. As a result they have made mistakes and also not had the level of resources or even skill required (particularly in the beginning)to lead a best practices effort. If new judges are being called in to examine the release of the Kalpoe brothers, well then someone in authority in Aruba or Holland does feel it is a decision warranting examination.
    – Natalee’s family has now lost patience with the system and the authorities, perhaps the result of the stress and also the realization ( particularly when Joran smiles & smirks for the cameras as late as Monday)that they daughter is most likely surely deceased now. How would you fare in similar circumstances? How would anyone?
    – I can state these two things as a mother, something I do think can be identified with globally. I would do or try anything I could think of (within legal limits) to find my daughter. That is a primal need that drives us, to know we did all that we could to save our child. Two, I would KNOW in my heart that patterns of behavior matter, that a girl who was obedient and mature in her studies and behavior, does not suddenly abandon that behavior in an instant due to Joran’s lovely smile.

  256. grimer11 says:

    current state department travel advisories
    ARUBA MUST BE ADDED TO THIS LIST!!!!!!!!
    http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

  257. DeeDee says:

    All of the name calling and politics is not why this board is established. I would imagine that the families, friends and possibly the police do monitor these boards. Grow up! It is not about YOU! YOU know who you are!
    Diplomacy from all sides would help in discussing facts that are pertinent. We in America should be accustomed to ungratefulness, it abounds, not just from Aruba.
    I truly thank all who post facts that may help in getting to the truth. All, no Most, who come to this website want truth and closure for the families because we can empathise with their loss. If you cannot do that, have empathy, for the people on either side of the fence, well.
    This will certainly effect the lives of Arubians and I feel very sorry for the disappointed Arubian here. She is not to blame. Follow the money and you will most likely find blame. Obviously the greater purpose would be the exposure of corruption for the sake of Arubians as well as for the Holloway family. JMO

  258. PackerFanGirl says:

    amotheralso:
    i had not heard they are bringing in new judges to look at the kalpoes’ release. is this because they think it is worth looking at or is it simply because the prosecutor appealed the decision so it goes to different judges for that decision?

  259. Barbara says:

    I’m a mother of five grown children. I love all of them as much as any mother. I’m from the south and not ashamed of that. Judges in our country have done things we can disagree with and try to do something about. Also, law enforcement in this country is not perfect. Dylan Groene would be alive if a judge in the U.S. had not released the child molester who was found with Shasta Groene. We can only try to do better. I hope that the Aruban law enforcement are doing all they can, and I believe they are, to find what happened to NH. If NH is never found, as hard as it will be, I can only pray that somehow Beth can find peace and go on with her life for her other child and family.

  260. professor says:

    I see the strategy. See how much sh*t you can make the family eat, and when they reach their limit, claim that they are impeding the investigation.

  261. kim says:

    Why would it matter if Natalee was on FBI list?? Aruba won’t and has not allowed them to assist them.

  262. Rachel says:

    Come on people We have no reason to dislike eachother. When I started reading and posting here it was a good place to share info and calmly discuss what may have happened. Now there is so much BULL**** it is as if everyone has suddenly become 3 years old!! There is no reason to have lost love between us. STAY Focused and Find Natalee!!!! We do have the ability to help this family now BUCK UP and DO IT!

  263. tideroller says:

    A message for Rajir and Moscoe Gal (who love to misspell America). I no longer read any posts that spell America with a K. If you want people to read your vicious, hateful, lying garbage, you have to at least spell America right. For some reason, I sense that Moscoe Gal even lives in America. If so, INS should be notified.

  264. Phantom says:

    PackerFanGirl,
    I was just trying to catch up with what was posted in the AM.
    In the initial trial it’s just one judge hearing the evidence and deciding. If the decision is appealed by EITHER side, under the Dutch judicial system if the prosecution loses it has the right to appeal the decision, the appeal will be heard by a 3 judge panel.

  265. Rachel says:

    Come on people We have no reason to dislike eachother. When I started reading and posting here it was a good place to share info and calmly discuss what may have happened. Now there is so much BULL**** it is as if everyone has suddenly become 3 years old!! There is no reason to have lost love between us. STAY Focused and Find Natalee!!!! We do have the ability to help this family now BUCK UP and DO IT!

  266. Barbara says:

    I’m a mother of five grown children. I love all of them as much as any mother. I’m from the south and not ashamed of that. Judges in our country have done things we can disagree with and try to do something about. Also, law enforcement in this country is not perfect. Dylan Groene would be alive if a judge in the U.S. had not released the child molester who was found with Shasta Groene. We can only try to do better. I hope that the Aruban law enforcement are doing all they can, and I believe they are, to find what happened to NH. If NH is never found, as hard as it will be, I can only pray that somehow Beth can find peace and go on with her life for her other child and family.

  267. Barbara says:

    I’m a mother of five grown children. I love all of them as much as any mother. I’m from the south and not ashamed of that. Judges in our country have done things we can disagree with and try to do something about. Also, law enforcement in this country is not perfect. Dylan Groene would be alive if a judge in the U.S. had not released the child molester who was found with Shasta Groene. We can only try to do better. I hope that the Aruban law enforcement are doing all they can, and I believe they are, to find what happened to NH. If NH is never found, as hard as it will be, I can only pray that somehow Beth can find peace and go on with her life for her other child and family.

  268. Kap says:

    Manda – If my life were in peril and in the balance for murder I wouldn’t be grinning or smiling at anything. Any photo you look at of him, he has the s*it eating grin on his face. It has nothing to do with what was said in the car and if the police are cracking jokes with Joran (someone under investigation for murder) then it proves the point of many that the police are NOT taking this investigation seriously and a cover-up is in the works. YOU THINK ABOUT THAT!

  269. ty says:

    MOSCOW GIRL is confused and educated beyond her means of understanding. What a looney!

  270. Rachel says:

    Come on people We have no reason to dislike eachother. When I started reading and posting here it was a good place to share info and calmly discuss what may have happened. Now there is so much BULL**** it is as if everyone has suddenly become 3 years old!! There is no reason to have lost love between us. STAY Focused and Find Natalee!!!! We do have the ability to help this family now BUCK UP and DO IT!

  271. PackerFanGirl says:

    Barbara, the fact about the MN judge letting the molestor go on low bail and not checking his FBI record is a very, very good point. His name should be front page news. Judges are elected here and hopefully he will not ever be re-elected.

  272. Phantom says:

    i had not heard they are bringing in new judges to look at the kalpoes’ release. is this because they think it is worth looking at or is it simply because the prosecutor appealed the decision so it goes to different judges for that decision?
    Posted by: PackerFanGirl | July 6, 2005 11:53 AM
    Simply because the prosecutor appealed.

  273. marin says:

    AMOTHERALSO:
    By that same token (your description of knowing your own child ect) if you knew also in your heart that your child may have some issues and had been less than honest with you or had engaged you in some very private but ugly quarrels and perhaps you knew that she was or had engaged in dangerous behavior, can you honestly say that you would reveal those things to the media? I think most parents would protect their children from that type of scrutiny no matter their behavior or secrets you may know about them, or may have since learned.
    I don’t think any parent will say “I would expose my child to the trashing of the media” and would in fact keep any secrets to themselves. With the media being the beast that it is, who could blame them?

  274. Rachel says:

    I emailed Moscow girl but of course no response. I suggested that she really listen before posting and imagine if it were her daughter missing here. Not sure she is capable of kind thought. Have not seen it yet.

  275. Steph in Bham says:

    Moscow Girl/Harry et al….I have been living in Alabama most of my adult life and it is a gracious place. I consider it home although I was not raised here. I have a masters degree and I’m a professional. I also own a timeshare in Aruba and have been there many times. The problem is not Aruba or its people but this investigation and a missing teen. Although I do not know her, I empathize with this family. I also empathize with Mrs. VDS; however, something is definitely wrong when people begin accusing victims instead of the suspects.
    I do not agree with violence nor insults so lets agree to disagree and be done with this.

  276. marin says:

    AMOTHERALSO:
    By that same token (your description of knowing your own child ect) if you knew also in your heart that your child may have some issues and had been less than honest with you or had engaged you in some very private but ugly quarrels and perhaps you knew that she was or had engaged in dangerous behavior, can you honestly say that you would reveal those things to the media? I think most parents would protect their children from that type of scrutiny no matter their behavior or secrets you may know about them, or may have since learned.
    I don’t think any parent will say “I would expose my child to the trashing of the media” and would in fact keep any secrets to themselves. With the media being the beast that it is, who could blame them?

  277. PackerFanGirl says:

    Moscow Girl has not been here since that post or if she is here, she is just watching and has not posted again. This is what started the nasty responses, reacting to her inflammatory remarks when she jumped in. Then people coming in saw the remarks back towards her and reacted to our remarks I believe without looking at what was said to us first.
    The last I knew there were 3 Arubans here, Peacekeeper, Arubian and Disappointed Arubian. All three with their last posts have been very civil.
    I like most will never go there unless this is resolved with correct justice, I like most have my suspicions about what is going on and how this matter has been handled due to what look like mistakes, I like most will give it back to anyone who attacks us first and finally I like most have not seen a nice remark on here towards us from anyone in Aruba for days but the three mentioned above have been civil and even friendly and if people like that join in this discussion I am glad to be civil in return and will not tar all with the same brush. If they do it to us, I will but not otherwise.
    Anyhow just wanted anyone joining to know that MoscowGirl has not posted since the reaction to her which resulted in further reactions.

  278. evh says:

    the brothers will be re-arrested very soon along with Paulus Van der sloot……….ignore the seemingly loose ends at the moment the ends are actually getting tighter believe me….

  279. Dirk says:

    to tideroller,
    In het Nederlands wordt Amerika gespeld met een K.
    In de Dutch language America is spelled with a K.
    As a non native speaker of the english language, these are the mistakes we commonly make, please don’t make an issue out of that.

  280. Dirk says:

    to tideroller,
    In het Nederlands wordt Amerika gespeld met een K.
    In de Dutch language America is spelled with a K.
    As a non native speaker of the english language, these are the mistakes we commonly make, please don’t make an issue out of that.

  281. resorttownmom says:

    Before we declare war between Alabama and Aruba, maybe we can call a truce. Diplomat that I am, this is the way I see the sides.
    Aruba Side:
    Aruba investigators probably thought that Natalee was partying which included drugs. They expected her to show up in a “flop house.” People on drug or drinking binges show up after a few days. They may have even thought that Natalee owed a drug dealer money for drugs that were advanced to her but not paid for yet. The dealers do that if you don’t pay up you get beat up or perhaps taken hostage until somebody pays up for you. The officials know Joran and don’t believe he would hurt anyone BUT they don’t know Natalee. They see drunk and drugged tourists all over the place so they make the speculation that’s what happened.
    Alabama side:
    Well they know Natalee and don’t believe that Natalee would be trashed out in a flop house somewhere. Since Natalee last seen with three locals boys, they jump to the conclusion that the three boys caused Natalee’s death. No body, no blood but somehow they think she is dead. They don’t know Joran, Depak or Satish. Now when there is no evidence surfacing that there was a “violent crime” and “these boys are criminals,” the Holloway-Twitty’s say there is a cover up simply because one of the boys is the son of a judicial official.
    So five weeks later, there is no evidence to suggest any theory at all. Possibly if both sides didn’t start out with preconceived notions of what happened things would be farther along. My theory is that Natalee was walking back to the Holiday Inn when she encountered some partying low life types that grabbed her and took her immediately off in their boat. There are marinas very close to that location. They headed off to the coast of Venezuela that is about thirty minutes from Caracas and left her in a brothel and got paid for her. That why there is no body.
    We are never going to find Natalee if all of this finger pointing does not stop. I don’t think that the Arubans would hide evidence. I just think that there isn’t any evidence. I hope to God that there isn’t a body in that container in the water. I hope it’s full of fishing gear that fell off of a boat. This search for a dead body is morbid. I would much rather hope that she is alive.

  282. PackerFanGirl says:

    evh
    what do you base that on or what makes you think that?

  283. wreck says:

    Go back near the top of this forum and read WorldJournier’s post about the F-16’s. It speaks volumes on what’s going on here. The F-16’s mission is NOT necessarily there to use special camaras. They are there as a not-too-subtle reminder of who is in control. NOT the corrupt politicians, NOT the drug lords, and NOT the money launderers. F-16’s are a THUNDEROUS PRESENCE!

  284. PackerFanGirl says:

    evh
    what do you base that on or what makes you think that?

  285. Janet says:

    If the missing person case of Natalee Holloway had taken place in Chicago, where I live, you can be sure that her entire family would be suspects and would have been interrogated in detail, especially the males.
    Her friends and her boyfriends would have been heavily investigated and suspected, as well.
    This rich Southern family and their wealthy friends who own private jets to wisk their friends around, avoiding cramped airline seats, have managed to throw a Teflon coating on themselves.
    There appears to have been NO investigation into the behavior of the other children on that trip, either before their arrival in Aruba, their activities in Aruba, and their actions once they escaped back to their privileged Southern town.
    All of this was carefully orchestrated by the mother who has the summer off from her school speech therapist job, so no lost wages, there…and millions of dollars of free publicity.
    We have two missing sisters in Chicago whose families would have deeply appreciated some of that free publicity and the personal help of Greta and Heraldo…but, they are little girls with a very low income family. Their mother and her sisters and friends are not blonde, either.
    But, our missing girls in Chicago are doubly more precious than the child from Alabama who had money to throw away on imbibing and partying and gambling…because there were two of them…so twice the pain and twice the loss of their futures…twice the lost love of daughters for their family…
    It is grossly unfair that so much money has been lavished on this one case of a missing child for no apparent reason that distinguishes Natalee from the thousands of missing children in this country.
    The media needs to acknowledge their misplaced use of power and resources and the effect it is having on the many, many, many other families in this country who are in as much, or more pain than the family, friends and news reporters associated with Natalee Holloway.

  286. websleuth2 says:

    Aruban Attitudes towards Women at the Utmost: Mrs. Van der S. the first lady to lead a political party
    by A.M. Digital
    http://news.caribseek.com/Aruba/AM_Digital/article_16189.shtml
    Posted: Jun 28, 2005 16:26 UTC
    ORANJESTAD – “Many changes are coming in Aruba. One of the changes that is worthwhile mentioning is the fact that for the first time in the history of Aruba, a lady is missing.
    The fact that Anita van der Sloot decided to establish her own political party is to be applauded. By making this step, Anita Van der S. is taking the female population of Aruba to the next level”. This was declared to the press by the Van der S. committee.
    Several women have worked and achieved a lot in several areas, also in politics. The committee wishes their candidate Anita Van Der S. strength and success with her new party MPA (Aruba Patriotic Movement).
    Mrs. Van der S. announced that she will concentrate on the social aspect of Aruba, placing the human being in the center.
    “All that is around us also concerns us as human beings. We applaud Mrs. Van der S. for thinking that much attention must be given to our own people, and that investments to be made have to be made in our own people”, said Nelson Oberduber, PM of Aruba and chair of the Anti-Misinformation Committee, that meets daily to do its utmost.
    The committee thinks that Mrs. van der S. as a female, without all due respect to the males, can realize solutions for many social problems in Aruba. She served in social groups for many years and her job as wife of a Judge-in-training Paulus Van Der S., and mother an unjustly accused detained Dutch Boy, has taught her what really goes around in the community.
    “We are glad to learn that Mrs. Van der S. thinks that the solution is not in Government’s hands but in the hands of all of us. Her slogan is: ‘Everybody counts’. Everybody counts when [his][or her] problem has to be solved, and everybody counts to be part of the solution.
    Mrs. Van der S. has taken the first step towards positive changes on our island. Lets join this first step and together bring the solutions for our country” declared the committee, without apostrophe, just the opposite of Riehl’s slugs. (just kidding, Dan.)

  287. Concernedparent says:

    I agree with the poster who stated that PVDS’s comment “no body–no crime” is NOT a normal response of a father to a son in a missing-girl case.
    The statement implies:
    1) He knew there was a dead body.
    2) He knew the body would not be found.
    It seems that PVDS slipped a little in talking about that comment.
    I think LE should make more of the comment and grill him on it.

  288. Disappointed Arubian says:

    I honestly believe the local investigators know more than they are indulging. But isn’t that the point? Everything will come out in court, where it’s meant to be revealed.
    She will be found, one way or another, this island is way too small for anyone to hide or be hidden for too long.
    My heart goes out for Beth, but one thing I disagree with is the fact that she called the Kalpoe brothers ‘criminals’. You can’t base your conclusion on speculations. We don’t know if they actaully did anything or even know what happened.
    Arubians have done alot in hopes of seeing positive results and all we’re getting is bad propaganda. No one even bothers to note that the boys involved aren’t even Arubians. Arubians are usually humble and conservative people, our prison cells are mostly populated by foreigners.

  289. anne says:

    I think Greta should have asked Kalpoe mom this: “If your boys are innocent, why did they lie and change their story and why did Deepack tell Joran to ‘say nothing’ when they were confronted by Twitty’s the first night. Me thinketh the lady (and sons) doth protest too much.

  290. PackerFanGirl says:

    Janet,
    While I agree that all missing people should be given just as much media focus, to talk about NH’s mother as orchestrating everything is way unfair. I suppose she orchestrated the disappearance? And yes the girls’ lives are doubly important if you mean there are two and that is the only reason but if you are saying one missing rich girl is less important than one missing not so well of child, that is way off base. All are important and just as important to the people missing them. And the blame does not belong on just our sensationalistic media, it belongs with the people who watch as well, the interest is there in the NH case just as it was in the Laci Peterson case. If the people watch and want to know and want it kept in the spotlight, the media keeps it in the spotlight.
    I myself think all missing people should be kept in the spotlight until found one way or another regardless of who they are and as a national or media service, not at cost to anyone but I doubt we will ever see that happen.
    Have a nice day Janet and everyone, taking a break if I can tear myself away.

  291. bobup says:

    Janet: do you have your green card yet?

  292. Peter says:

    Found this website giving another thought.
    NATALEE
    http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/3/491/18474
    So even americans are fed up?

  293. grimer11 says:

    PERHAPS HER “PARTY” SHOULD BE CALLED WIVES AND MOTHERS OF PREDATORS AND MURDERERS

  294. Tanya says:

    Obviously the FBI knows she is dead not missing

  295. Peter says:

    Found this website giving another thought.
    NATALEE
    http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/3/491/18474
    So even americans are fed up?

  296. Peter says:

    Found this website giving another thought.
    NATALEE
    http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/3/491/18474
    So even americans are fed up?

  297. tideroller says:

    Gabe – On this web we expect posters to support their statements. There is no testimony whatsoever that Natalee misbehaved badly. It seems clear to all but the most blind that she did not leave willingly with Joran, but was a victim of having been drugged and “carved out” to get her in what she and all the other Americans thought was a taxi. If you have nothing valuable to contribute to this blog, then leave it!

  298. Peter says:

    Found this website giving another thought.
    NATALEE
    http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/3/491/18474
    So even americans are fed up?

  299. Peter says:

    Found this website giving another thought.
    NATALEE
    http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2005/7/3/491/18474
    So even americans are fed up?

  300. websleuth2 says:

    This one is verbatim. Note the last paragraph. (we agree, COMPETENT)
    http://news.caribseek.com/Aruba/AM_Digital/article_16317.shtml
    “The crew of the D’Mary and the cocaine were turned over to the competent US law enforcement agencies. The will be charged and tried in accordance with US laws and will probably have to serve a long jail sentence. ”

  301. kim says:

    Aruba has never allowed FBI to assist -ask your Prime Minister.
    THE F.B.I.
    What We Investigate:
    The very heart of FBI operations lies in our investigations–which serve, as our mission states, “to protect and defend the United States against terrorist and foreign intelligence threats and to enforce the criminal laws of the United States.

  302. vcsiii50 says:

    Janet (and others with the same point of view):
    I am wondering how you can say that there has been no investigation of the family or the others on the trip? Surely there were questions asked and answered, because we knew weeks ago many details of what Natalee and her friends were doing that night, where the chaperone’s were, etc., etc.
    As far as I can recall, there were no inconsistent or evasive replies to these questions. I would be surprised if the participants (classmates and chaperones) have not also been interviewed by US Govt officials, perhaps by more than one agency, already. (I’ll bet the US State Dept. has spoken to the Holloways!)
    I wonder where you get your information?
    And by the way, just because the cicumstances of your family and your socio-economic background would not provide the support that Natalee’s family has provided does not in any way mean that the Holloways are somehow “wrong” to bring all their resources to bear……it just means that you are bitter and envious.
    Why not keep the focus on Natalee and post your resentment somewhere else?

  303. PackerFanGirl says:

    Okay, I am not gone yet.
    Disappointed Arubian:
    First, can I ask then is it Arubian and not Aruban? And point taken, the suspects are not Arubian but Dutch and Surinamese.
    I think many of us simply disagree with you on the Kalpoe brothers being called criminals by NH’s mother because in our eyes they are criminals. Lying is perjury and concocting a cover story with JVS is being an accessory at the very least I believe. Anyhow it is the fact they lied about dropping her off at the Holiday Inn, the fact they had a conversation with the father of JVS, JVS and each other, at least that is what we have heard, etc., etc. This is why they are referred to as criminals in my opinion at least.
    You say you think they have more evidence than we know. I hope you are right. We all keep hoping that is the case and it is nice to hear that you think it is a real possibility from someone that is there.

  304. Bri says:

    The Arubans are trying to deflect blame off themselves and back onto NH’s family and the Americans b/c they know they are 1) inapt and 2) involved in a cover-up 3) have bigger crime than they admit. They do not want the FBI digging into their big crime because it would hurt their business.
    As far as why this case is big and/or bigger than most others in the U.S: 1) this is an international kidnapping/murder that has not been handled well at all and possibly even covered up by the government.
    This may have happened in the past or may happen daily for all we know with other US citizens in foreign countries, but Beth has brought it to our attention and continues to do so and I don’t blame her. If it were my child, I would move Heaven and Earth to get her back to; and God help the Arubans or whoever else got in my way! 2) Beth is very vocal and very proactive and she is not leaving until she gets Natalee and I don’t blame her there. Her persistence and determination and her bringing it to the media’s attention the way she has is what is keeping this in the forefront. 3) let’s face it; they have CONNECTIONS and money and they know how to use them to their advantage and I don’t blame them there either. If it were my child, and I had those resources, I would do the same. 4) As far as the FBI involvement and other agencies (or media for that matter); definately the Holloway-Twittys have more info that we do NOT have that they may have even released to certain agencies in exchange for their help; and perhaps that is what makes this case so different where the FBI and Equusearch and the media is involved.
    As Jug said last night; they apparently know some stuff that he insinuated would reflect the Aruban gov’t in an even worse light (if not a criminal light) and he isn’t afraid to use it when he feels they are not doing what they are supposed to be; so that also adds to the importance of the case. If the gov’t is covering up or aiding and abetting international criminals or criminals against the U.S; then that is BIG and would make this a case of interest to everyone.
    Unfortunately, most families do not have the money and connections, not to mention the determination and wherewithal that the H-T family has when their child goes missing, and that is a shame. But, just because the have-nots don’t like it, doesn’t mean that the haves should not use all their power and resources to get their child back. If Natalee was YOUR child, would you just let it go; knowing what the Twitty family knows?? I don’t think so; and if so, then what kind of parent are you/would you be if you didn’t do everything in your power to get him/her back??
    We do NOT know who HAS or HAS NOT been investigated in the family or friends or other students. Just because we haven’t heard, doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been done. Even though it happened on foreign soil, since the FBI was involved, I am sure they questioned and eliminated the family members and friends etc of the family already. Besides, there are the facts of the case; that no one else (in the family) was KNOWN or suspected to be on the island, they weren’t the last ones known/seen with her, and if crime is so low in Aruba and the investigators so good and crime is so high in America (esp Missing and murdered children); if someone she knew were planning to kill Natalee, why would they travel to Aruba to do it. Even so, why would they go on with a charade of trying to move mountains to find her. Maybe a week or two, but they would assume they got away with it and quit looking…Besides, I think even in the U.S it is rare for a parent to kill their older teen child unless it is in anger/heat of passion..usually it is small children that are murdered for reasons like lost custody (NH being 18 wouldn’t be logical here since neither would have custody anymore) or where the parent wants to be free of children and remarry or whatever…(also wouldn’t apply).
    All you people that keep pointing fingers at the Twitty family (and friends) need to actually STUDY the cases and statistics of the crimes in the U.S against our children that you keep throwing in our face and quoting before you start accusing innocent people (like the Twittys) of being “suspects” or “murderers”.

  305. Bri says:

    The Arubans are trying to deflect blame off themselves and back onto NH’s family and the Americans b/c they know they are 1) inapt and 2) involved in a cover-up 3) have bigger crime than they admit. They do not want the FBI digging into their big crime because it would hurt their business.
    As far as why this case is big and/or bigger than most others in the U.S: 1) this is an international kidnapping/murder that has not been handled well at all and possibly even covered up by the government.
    This may have happened in the past or may happen daily for all we know with other US citizens in foreign countries, but Beth has brought it to our attention and continues to do so and I don’t blame her. If it were my child, I would move Heaven and Earth to get her back to; and God help the Arubans or whoever else got in my way! 2) Beth is very vocal and very proactive and she is not leaving until she gets Natalee and I don’t blame her there. Her persistence and determination and her bringing it to the media’s attention the way she has is what is keeping this in the forefront. 3) let’s face it; they have CONNECTIONS and money and they know how to use them to their advantage and I don’t blame them there either. If it were my child, and I had those resources, I would do the same. 4) As far as the FBI involvement and other agencies (or media for that matter); definately the Holloway-Twittys have more info that we do NOT have that they may have even released to certain agencies in exchange for their help; and perhaps that is what makes this case so different where the FBI and Equusearch and the media is involved.
    As Jug said last night; they apparently know some stuff that he insinuated would reflect the Aruban gov’t in an even worse light (if not a criminal light) and he isn’t afraid to use it when he feels they are not doing what they are supposed to be; so that also adds to the importance of the case. If the gov’t is covering up or aiding and abetting international criminals or criminals against the U.S; then that is BIG and would make this a case of interest to everyone.
    Unfortunately, most families do not have the money and connections, not to mention the determination and wherewithal that the H-T family has when their child goes missing, and that is a shame. But, just because the have-nots don’t like it, doesn’t mean that the haves should not use all their power and resources to get their child back. If Natalee was YOUR child, would you just let it go; knowing what the Twitty family knows?? I don’t think so; and if so, then what kind of parent are you/would you be if you didn’t do everything in your power to get him/her back??
    We do NOT know who HAS or HAS NOT been investigated in the family or friends or other students. Just because we haven’t heard, doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been done. Even though it happened on foreign soil, since the FBI was involved, I am sure they questioned and eliminated the family members and friends etc of the family already. Besides, there are the facts of the case; that no one else (in the family) was KNOWN or suspected to be on the island, they weren’t the last ones known/seen with her, and if crime is so low in Aruba and the investigators so good and crime is so high in America (esp Missing and murdered children); if someone she knew were planning to kill Natalee, why would they travel to Aruba to do it. Even so, why would they go on with a charade of trying to move mountains to find her. Maybe a week or two, but they would assume they got away with it and quit looking…Besides, I think even in the U.S it is rare for a parent to kill their older teen child unless it is in anger/heat of passion..usually it is small children that are murdered for reasons like lost custody (NH being 18 wouldn’t be logical here since neither would have custody anymore) or where the parent wants to be free of children and remarry or whatever…(also wouldn’t apply).
    All you people that keep pointing fingers at the Twitty family (and friends) need to actually STUDY the cases and statistics of the crimes in the U.S against our children that you keep throwing in our face and quoting before you start accusing innocent people (like the Twittys) of being “suspects” or “murderers”.

  306. PackerFanGirl says:

    Okay, I am not gone yet.
    Disappointed Arubian:
    First, can I ask then is it Arubian and not Aruban? And point taken, the suspects are not Arubian but Dutch and Surinamese.
    I think many of us simply disagree with you on the Kalpoe brothers being called criminals by NH’s mother because in our eyes they are criminals. Lying is perjury and concocting a cover story with JVS is being an accessory at the very least I believe. Anyhow it is the fact they lied about dropping her off at the Holiday Inn, the fact they had a conversation with the father of JVS, JVS and each other, at least that is what we have heard, etc., etc. This is why they are referred to as criminals in my opinion at least.
    You say you think they have more evidence than we know. I hope you are right. We all keep hoping that is the case and it is nice to hear that you think it is a real possibility from someone that is there.
    I think you could do a lot to ease the tensions. If you look back to weeks ago there were not so many outrageous comments about Aruba at least from most of us normal people on here. There were also plenty of friendly Arubans on here. As you know, our system differs from yours and with things that look a little fishy or botched, then add to it your closed system of justice where no one can view the proceedings, etc., the frustration over NH not being found and more has created this. I am sure our media has not behaved perfectly by any means but with the concern and pressure from people here who care and want to know what is going on and the lack of information with the way your system works, this situation has been created. I am sure you are tired of your country being trashed or all of you being painted with the same brush and we are tired of the same and frustrated with the entire process and lack of answers. We also get bashed on here by people claiming to be from Aruba, whether they are or not who knows? I think another problem has been the legal system is one thing but we never even see anyone on here who will even consider these boys might be guilty. I am not saying they should not be innocent until proven guilty but no one will even consider that they might be, all theories from those we have seen from your country seem to hinge on it being the victim’s fault. You as far as I can recall are the first to even state you think they probably are. I for one thank you for that.
    It is the lack of talk that is so frustrating for us, not just by law enforcement but Arubians themselves except to bash each other. Us at you and yours at us.

  307. vcsiii50 says:

    Hey Dirk
    That was actually a pretty good post.
    (Not sure about Hillary tho….lol)

  308. GrannyToad says:

    Wreck was impressed by F-16 flyovers.
    Compare/contrast
    I grew up under (and beside) fighter jets even while they were still a WWII Top Secret (father wore green and put on the bat-out-of-hell patch back then. I recall ducking my head under that scratchy green to get away from the noise as they taxied out of the hangar). I don’t think I’ve ever resided anywhere flyovers weren’t a common event. Resided – not traveled/visited. I still recognize most passing aircraft by engine sound.
    Too little, too late. All I get is presence and support from Nederlanders – a mobile icon, & vacation TDY for jet pilots & crew. If anything of forensic value comes of their maneuver 6 weeks after Natalee went missing and months down the line when the film’s been evaluated, I’ll be surprised.
    The Dutch likely may as well have sent an Impressive F-16 video – online.
    Disappeared.
    Bring Natalee home.

  309. tideroller says:

    Sorry, Dirk, you’ll have to do better than that. Since all of you Dutch citizens know English “so well” according to yourselves, we do know that you know how to spell America when you are writing in English. We also know that you are very much aware of the insult and hostility that you are conveying to us when you spell it with a K. We may seem like fools to the rest of the world because they choose to perceive us that way. But guess what , “we ‘ain’t’ as stupid as we seem. If you’re so cerebrally challenged that you can’t spell the name of my country correctly, I simply won’t read your posts.

  310. Disappointed Arubian says:

    PackerFanGirl:
    It’s Aruban Government, Aruban beaches, etc.
    If you were born here, you are an Arubian.
    What has me puzzled is the fact that this one missing girl is getting so much attention from the American press. And I ask WHY?
    Why aren’t missing people in the U.S. getting as much attention as Natalee? What’s so special about her case except the fact that it happened on an island with a very low crime rate?
    It went so far thet even the FBI are here. I don’t understand why or how she’s catching all this attention.

  311. BamaJD says:

    Moscow girl, you really are pretty funny. Here I sit in Huntsville Alabama looking out my window of the huge Saturn V booster. It’s good to know that here in Alabama, our illiterate rocket scientists and engineers made your space program a worthless piece of junk.
    Oh yeah, lets talk about what “Star Wars” defense systems, which we do here as well, and what that did to shake up Gorby back in the day. Not bad for a bunch of rednecks huh?

  312. chaser says:

    To Dan (Website-owner):
    If we want to ease the tension please close the site for comments. The comments on this site have gone beyond decent discussion. Insults are going back and forth, and it is not helping anyone. It is creating a situation which is not healthy. Two countries who agree that Natalee needs to be found, but are going to far in my humble opinion. This will be my last post. Good bye and God bless…..

  313. grimer11 says:

    ARUBIANS JUST WANT NEWS OF SANCTIONED RAPE AND MURDER TO “GO AWAY”….THEIR EXPOSED CRIMINALITY AND CLANNISHNESS IS BECOMING “COSTLY”…..HUMAN LIFE MEANS NOTHING TO THESE CANNIBALS

  314. Blue says:

    I’m not sure if this has been mentioned
    The fact that the FBI doesn’t have NH on the missing persons list leads me to believe that there must be forensic evidence that shows she is dead
    I wonder if this relates in some way to the info that the family is threatening to release?
    What do you think people

  315. michele in bham says:

    Everything that I say is purely speculation. I do not know the Holloways my self. I know all this information because my friend, see her friends friend has these kids that go to that school. They did not go on the trip, so they only know like bits and pieces, but hey 7 degrees of seperation means I was practically on the trip too so I can run my mouth however I choose.

  316. WaWa says:

    To Dan:
    Ditto Chaser
    Haven’tposted in days since everyone is loosing sight of the real discussion.
    Au Revoir

  317. PackerFanGirl says:

    Lots just on Dayside. Alabama Senator says received a personal letter from Prime Minister Aruba asking for US Navy help (or equipment) searching deeper sea. Yet another source in Aruba disputes Prime Minister sent such a letter says it was a form letter. Senator says no form letter.
    Tito, Arubian news reporter, says Kalpoes staying on island, deciding it looks better and should not leave now with controversy swirling. Prosecution also requesting appeal that they stay on island, etc. Three judges to decide as we have heard before. D.A. says father obstructed justice but judge says not enough evidence to hold him.
    Tito says his sources say do not be surprised if father VDS is rearrested in coming weeks.
    Anyhow, looks like efforts being made to inform us, look at Kalpoe’s release and bring in some help from us and involve us some. Hope this is a turning point.
    D.A. made another statement that was very important and interesting but I cannot remember what it was now. Did anyone else catch this?

  318. Southwestern Ontario John says:

    If the local officials continue to drop the ball on this case, my suggestion, albeit extreme and implausible is this:
    President Bush should order all Americans off Aruba,and compensate those who be unable to complete their vacations or look for new work.
    Then, he should order the marines to storm Aruba, arrest the island’s top officials—including the Prime Minister, Police Commissioner and everyone associated with the judiciary. The President could then appoint an interim government until this sordid mess is resolved. The marines should also round up Joran, his father, the Kalpoes, Steve Croes and anyone else linked to Natalee and apply the toughest interrogation measures permitted under the Geneva Convention. Should one of them crack, and Natalee’s body is found, then they should face a firing squad. I told you this was extreme.

  319. Bama needs reality says:

    Dan…
    Clean this mess up….. This place needs a mod

  320. Manda says:

    Grimer11. . . .
    You are making accusations about an entire population which is not fair to them or anyone. I don’t know where you are from nor do I really care to know but as a nation we do not like being grouped by one name. . . so please respect others as you would like to be respected.

  321. Granny Toad says:

    ” … Lying is perjury … ”
    Posted by: PackerFanGirl | July 6, 2005 12:45 PM
    I’m not so sure that is true. I think perjury is the US term when false testimony is given in court, as in when a crime is being prosecuted.
    “No corpse, no case.”
    There appears to be only suspicion of a crime – so far as is known, Natalee is missing. Period.
    Disappeared.
    While, IMO, it has generally begun to appear that Joran’s being well-cared-for for his protection safely out of media’s reach. Does he have a cell (maybe pun intended) phone? Laptop?

  322. michele in bham says:

    Manda shut up and sit back down. I was practically on that trip because my friends have these friends who have friends who have kids that happen to go to that school, so I am like an expert at all this now. What I say goes and I say you need to shut up.

  323. Disappointed Arubian says:

    I don’t think the family knows anything we don’t already know. They might be bluffing, who knows.
    If they were planning on threatening to taint our name, it’s too late. The media already made us look bad. Look at the posts made in here. How do you think these people came up with their opinions? Media speculation. Stop pointing fingers at each other. It doesn’t help find Natalee in any way.
    We can’t help she’s missing, we didn’t plan this and we’re not used to this either. We are just upset that despite our efforts we are still looked down upon in this case. It is frustrating. Ofcourse we are upset our economy is being threatened. Who wouldn’t be?
    Try to place yourselves in our shoes. You wouldn’t like how it feels either. We are victims here too.

  324. Lynn says:

    Does anyone remember the name of the psychic they are now using in the Natalee Holloway case? I caught the tale end of Fox News the other night and some psychic was saying Natalee had been talking to her and that she had five pages of notes from her conversation with Natalee. The psychic also gave information as to where she thought Natalee is. I guess this psychic has been used in a lot of unsolved crimes in the U.S.

  325. sleuth says:

    Dan, I am not sure I see any real value in allowing the anti-American sentiments expressed here, in continuing. These folks have turned something that you meant for good, into a battleground to attack Americans.
    I find it very depressing to view the posts from these hateful people, who would rather blame the victim here, and her homeland, than to see the truth right under their noses.
    Why don’t you kick these haters off of here, and let us get back to caring about what has happened.
    Or, let them start their own board and post to their little black hearts’ content?

  326. new day says:

    Sure a lot of people go missing all over the world. Most disappear without a trace and that makes the case hard to present in the media and hard to follow. Sad but true.
    However, that’s not the case in the disappearence of NH. Not only is there quite a bit of indication about what may have happened but it has the appearance of being shady. I’m not saying what DID happen because none of us know for sure but the elements of this case …. mainly that the primary suspect has connections makes it catch us. No one wants the “bad guys” to win especially *IF* a coverup is being attempted. It is the elements of this case that keeps our interest. Sad but true IMNSHO.

  327. michele in bham says:

    Who cares what you think Disappointed Aruban. You are one of them. You are probably hiding Natalees body right now. I should know I am an expert at this case.

  328. michele in bham says:

    Who cares what you think Disappointed Aruban. You are one of them. You are probably hiding Natalees body right now. I should know I am an expert at this case.

  329. grimer11 says:

    the weapon of the guilty is obfuscation.

  330. new day says:

    I would like to thank all of the people who have followed this case with the hope of justice being served …no matter who you are or where you are from. Kudos.

  331. michele in bham says:

    How pathetic. You all are a bunch of morons. I am the true expert here. I have friends who have friends who have kids who go to that school. So I know it all!

  332. rACH says:

    DO YOU THINK THAT THE TWITTY’S WILL RELEASE THIS SHOCKING INFO?

  333. Rach says:

    You go Charles III.
    Michele, wow your creditentials are outstanding. You should be one of the lead dectives on this case.

  334. Barbara says:

    I did hear one girl who was on the trip say that they were told not to say anything that happened, only say what they felt now. Michele is the only one who really knows. I’m hoping if I say nice things about her, she will tell me.

  335. Barbara says:

    I don’t know what really happened. Michele does and I hope she will tell me if I’m nice to her. Hey, Michele, I really like you. Whisper it to me. I promise to keep quite about it and if I tell anyoone, I will tell them not to tell anyone.

  336. new day says:

    To those of you who are pointing fingers and making accusations:
    Please be here (if this case is ever solved)to apologize if you are wrong or even better, to eat some crow pie.
    Most humble and gracious thanks!

  337. michele in bham says:

    I am the expert here Charles III so shut up. You too Rach. Get over yourselves I am right there with the investigation and I will blow your ass out of the water if I have to.

  338. Dolores says:

    I have friends who have friends blablabla so I KNOW IT AlL???
    Nobody knows it all for if they new this case would have been long solved.
    I really don’t see how a discussion forum about Natalee filled with hate! (Vice versa) will add anything to have Natalee found. It is just showing how wars start, how people are still ungly things who don’t deserve to live in paradise. Clean up your acts people…

  339. new day says:

    To those of you who are pointing fingers and making accusations:
    Please be here (if this case is ever solved)to apologize if you are wrong or even better, to eat some crow pie.
    Most humble and gracious thanks!

  340. michele in bham says:

    Barbara take your fat ass and go the hell away. You are bothering me.

  341. new day says:

    To those of you who are pointing fingers and making accusations:
    Please be here (if this case is ever solved)to apologize if you are wrong or even better, to eat some crow pie.
    Most humble and gracious thanks!

  342. Tsunder says:

    I think they would have released it a long time ago..
    Pardon my English.. :-|

  343. BigAl says:

    pathetic…Dan has to shut this crap down.

  344. Barbara says:

    Michele, who told you about my fat ass? I’ve been trying to keep it a secret.

  345. Edra says:

    I am Aruba born and raised. Like all Arubians, I am a Dutch citizen. My passport is exactly like my father’s passport…DUTCH. He was born in Amsterdam, we are both DUTCH citizens…of the Kingdom of the Netherlands…eleven provinces in Europe and six islands in the Dutch Caribbean, five remain in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba is the sixth island, a separate member of the Kingdom.
    There is no difference between being Arubian and being Dutch.
    My father is Caucasian and my mother is Negro, born on the Dutch island of Sint Maartin…we all have the identical passport…we are all Dutch citizens.
    Suriname was a part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands like Indonesia, Java, Bali, and the rest of the Dutch East Indies, but all are now separate countries. Suriname maintains close ties to the Kingdom and the six islands which are nearby. Suriname was called Dutch Guiana and is located on the north coastal side of South America.
    I know that geography and political science and foreign languages are not required study in United States schools as they are in Dutch schools. Very few people speak our language and we are a very very small nation, so for centuries, the mercantile population of the Netherlands had to learn other languages for trade and commerce. In that way, Arubians have learned four languages since early childhood…the official language of their country is Dutch; the native language of socializing is Papiamento; the American oil refinery which came to Aruba in the 1920’s to build what became the largest refinery in the world, Lago Oil and Transport Co., Ltd, provided jobs to thousands of West Indians for over 60 years…so they all spoke American English. Lago and Arubians provided a huge percentage of the aviation fuel needed by the Allied air forces to vanquish Hitler and the Germans during the World War II.
    http://lago-colony.com/WORLD%20WAR%20II/DIRECTOR.htm
    The Arubians also learn to speak Spanish, being so close to the mainland of South America. If you are in Aruba you might notice how easily we all switch between the three languages. You might be surprised at the sophisticated vocabulary we can share with any of the speakers of those languages…
    We are long accustomed to relationships with Europe and the United States and with the other islands of the Caribbean.
    Our health statistics and standard of living are better than any other country in the Western Hemisphere…look at our infant mortality rates, compared to the other countries of North and South America…and our average life span, also longer than any other country in the Western Hemisphere…
    Our unemployment rate is so low that we have to grant work visas to a thousand people from the Philipines and for a specific number from the mainland countries to perform all of the work needed by the American refinery and the American and Dutch hotel chains and restaurants.
    The vast majority of Arubians travel to the Netherlands and to the United States on vacation and for advanced study.
    Aruba is small, but it is home to over forty national and ethnic cultures who have lived together in harmony for many generations.
    We have earned the right to call ourselved One Happy Island through decades of hard work and diligent education of our population.
    Greta van Susteren has an eminently Dutch name, but I think she may not be able to speak her ancestral language. I suspect that she is enjoying her time in Aruba because she can sense that we are a genuinely kind and caring and sweet people who sincerely care about each other and the people who visit our island.
    Please reserve judgement until you have met us and enjoyed our hospitality and our genuine kindness.
    I would say that Arubians are a class act, however, that might be misunderstood…for it is not an act…we are truly as our national anthem avers…”the greatness of our people is their great cordiality”
    http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/general/anthem.html
    We wish the end of this nightmare for the families involved and for the people of our island and the Kingdom of the Netherlands.
    Edra van Buuren de Lange

  346. tracker says:

    To aruban posters:
    The situation is unchanged. For more than a month, a young American girl who was a guest on your island, has been missing without a trace.
    The ‘investigations’ by your polis have:
    1) Failed to find Natalie Holloway
    2) Determine what happened to her.
    3) Determine if a crime has been committed in connection with her disappearance.
    This tragic event occurred in your jurisdiction, as you keep telling us.
    WHERE IS NATALEE HOLLOWAY?

  347. Rach says:

    Michele it sounds like you need to get over your self. If you are in this investigation why haven’t you been questioned or interviewed. Yeah that is what I thought os shut the hell up.

  348. lennie says:

    So how many people think they are really using F-16’s to look for a missing person. I guess they are taking a few pictures of Aruba. But as they turn around for the next pass, they shoot the Panama Canal, Central America, Columbia, Venezuela, Suriname, Brazil. What’s Chavez going to say–no you can’t fly over our air space to look for a missing person? Here’s the description of an F-16.
    http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=103

  349. Barbara says:

    Edra, I enjoyed reading your wonderful post. I spent some time near Amsterdam in 1990. Through my host, I met many Dutch men and women. They were all gracious and hospitable. I went into a bank in Nieu Vennep to cash a check and asked the teller if she spoke English. She looked at me sort of funny when she said yes.

  350. grimer11 says:

    ARUBIANS DONT CARE…..THEY JUST WANT TO DRUG, RAPE AND KILL WITHOUT THE INCONVENIENT PRESENCE OF A FAMILY LOOKING FOR THEIR MISSING DAUGHTER LAST SEEN WITH 3 NATIVE PREDATORS.

  351. lennie says:

    So how many people think they are really using F-16’s to look for a missing person. I guess they are taking a few pictures of Aruba. But as they turn around for the next pass, they shoot the Panama Canal, Central America, Columbia, Venezuela, Suriname, Brazil. What’s Chavez going to say–no you can’t fly over our air space to look for a missing person? Here’s the description of an F-16.
    http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=103

  352. lennie says:

    So how many people think they are really using F-16’s to look for a missing person. I guess they are taking a few pictures of Aruba. But as they turn around for the next pass, they shoot the Panama Canal, Central America, Columbia, Venezuela, Suriname, Brazil. What’s Chavez going to say–no you can’t fly over our air space to look for a missing person? Here’s the description of an F-16.
    http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=103

  353. observer says:

    Ways in which Americans can hurt the Aruban economy:
    1) Stop travelling there.
    2) Discourage others from travelling there.
    3) Spread the word about this case to as many people as you can.
    4) Question anyone who is from Aruba about their perspective on the case – don’t harass them, just ask their opinion.
    5) Don’t employ anyone in the U.S. who has previously worked for the Aruban government.
    PLEASE…ADD TO THIS LIST AND DISSEMINATE.

  354. PackerFanGirl says:

    Disappointed Arubian:
    As you know from prior posts, we are a lot bigger country. I of course do not know NH, I am not from the same economic class, state or even that part of our country.
    That being said, I can only speculate on why this case is getting so much attention and the FBI is involved. First I think because it is international, she went missing abroad, not something we hear often. Second because she is young, just graduated high school and went on a pleasure trip with a ton of people in celebration of her graduation. Third because as you know this is something that does not happen in Aruba, the senior (graduating) class from this high school took this trip every year and no such thing happened, etc. Fourth because any one with children can identify and you add to that the fact she was pretty, promising with a full academic scholarship, by all accounts a good kid, a nice kid and a kid with a lot of potential and something to offer (planned on becoming a doctor), that makes it more poignant. Next I think it has stayed in the news because unlike here it is so hard to find out any information or know what is going on. Despite what you may think, hearing of a girl that age, on such a trip, out of the country, with so much potential is not something we ever have happen here. Have we had other people go missing when traveling? Certainly but nothing like this. Yes, we have a lot of missing children, etc. but this international thing is not something we hear every day or even every year and never as we all can probably agree in Aruba or rarely.
    The FBI involvement I can really only speculate. I know it was said here off the bat that there were reasons that were clear from the very beginning that they needed to be involved. I think this could be due to something they know and your law enforcement knew from the very start. However, I also heard (on the news so who knows????) that it was because it was clear she was not a runaway from the facts about the girl so they figured foul play. Whether this is a standard reason for the FBI to get involved I do not know but I suspect it is in a foreign country if they are sure she did not run away, they would probably at least go there to ensure an investigation is undertaken. The other possibility is it is rumored on here they have some connections and her father or was it stepfather was pretty big in our service with some high connnections so they may have though kidnapping for ransome or terrorist against America.
    What I do know is this case has struck more than the usual cord with me and I have not been able to stay away from it as is the case with many of us so that also explains the media attention. We are interested and very caring and concerned and so they stay on what we are focused on and what we want to know. I have tried to figure out my interest and I think it is that I have a 19 and 23-year-old daughter. I know how invincible they think they are and how naive they are when it comes to thinking anything can happen to them. They think nothing of traveling with friends while I worry about it and warn them and warn them. I of course feel for Natalee’s mother, such things are a big fear for all mothers, especially of daughters, us females are quite vulnerable to the vultures out there these days particularly if you are young and naive, I think this brings much interest. And I think it is again because she was so promising this girl, because her family seems so strong and determined to find her which is admirable even if the strong words of the mom’s frustration upset some of you and finally I think your legal system and the lack of information keeps the interest alive. Not saying right or wrong, just that if we knew there was evidence or this case was getting somewhere or that she would be found or they knew what happened to her, we would settle down and the interest would not be so intense all of the time. It is just hard to know anything and for the media to report anything because of the way things are done.
    Those are my thoughts on why the focus, others may want to add their opinions. And I think I can sense that part of the Arubians’ frustrations are this focus on their island that they are not used to and the continual media presence on your island.
    Thank you for talking to me, I really believe if you can give us some answers and some views and some concern that is what a lot of us do not understand as it just does not seem to be there.
    Perhaps your country is being portrayed incorrectly, I do not know. I do know we get portrayed all around the world unfairly by our own media and other nation’s media. The things wrong in our country contrary to popular belief do not represent the majority of the hardworking, moral, good, caring people here. We are truly giving people and caring people. Can you ruffle our feathers? Definitely. We are hated around the world and portrayed incorrectly. Hollywood is not representative of the people in our country and what you see on our news is not representative of most of the decent morals in this country. And I do not need to get into a political discussion, none of us do, but our government is not portrayed correctly all the time either, even by our own media.
    I think you must know from your tourism that there are Americans who are friendly, nonjudgmental and down to earth and decent just as I am sure you run into the type I would not like either that have attitudes and treat your people there as lower than them. Most of us are NOT like that.
    Let’s keep talking when we see each other here. And I am sorry for any remarks earlier I might have said to offend. I do not generalize unless I feel someone else is doing it to us or jumping to a conclusion without a reason.
    Oh one final thing. All the talk about people missing in our country and why the attention on this girl missing in yours? I know I, and I believe most others feel the same, when I see anything about anyone on the news missing, it hits hard, especially when it is children. I stay interested but it does not always stay in the news, who knows why? Other news comes up, etc., etc. All should stay in the news. There was a report of an Iowa girl missing yesterday and not one word about it have I heard today. I think she is 5. Why no word today? I have no idea. And generally most stay in the news until solved or until searches end, cases proceed, etc. Because NH has not been found, because there are suspects, because it is ongoing and because new news may appear daily, the interest stays, that is what I think. And again, we are a lot bigger here with a ton more people and as stated, more missing people than I probably even know about where NH missing on a little island is easy to stay focused on.

  355. mike says:

    Is it just me or are the parents at fault here for letting a 17 yr. old girl go off on her on.

  356. emevval says:

    I can’t sit back anymore.
    Dirk, You lost me at Hillary!!!
    BAFFFFFF

  357. melja56 says:

    To Moscow Girl:
    Being born and raised in the great state of Alabama and fortunate enough to be part of the United States of America, I take your post to be a personal insult.
    I think someone who is from Moscow has a lot of nerve accusing anyone else of being anything other than extremely lucky not to have been born in Moscow.
    America has used great restraint in the matter so far, but the time will come when things will get ugly. If it had been Moscow, Aruba would probably already have been nuked and blown away.
    So before you call a kettle black, look in the mirrow. I for one am a very educated person, I have a master degree in Business. The plants you say are not coming to Alabama are already functioning here, so educate yourself before you make a vile statement such as the one you posted.
    Go to Aruba, have a good time. You apparently belong there! Maybe you will disappear there too! Then the world will definitely be a better place.
    Melja in Birmingham, AL

  358. not fair says:

    observer …. I do not wish to hurt the Aruban citizens.
    What I would like to see is an independent investigation into how the case is being handled. No warning to Aruban officials. I want to see a team of good non-partial investigators storm all the places where information and suspects are held …. and evaluate.
    Oh to dream …..

  359. Dolores says:

    Thank you Edra for your post.

  360. Kap says:

    Aruba this Aruba that. Who cares?
    One thing is FACT: the Aruban police screwed this case up from the beginning and it’s starting to look like it was on purpose.
    Had this case been handled by police in the United States, warrants would have been served the day after she disappeared to search the VDS and Kalpoes property, houses, and automobiles. They wouldn’t have bought some bogus story of security guards if they knew they were the LAST ones seen with her. This case would be OVER by now.
    The Aruban police chief made sure Joran and his father had enough time to collaborate a story with the Kalpoes and to destory any forensic evidence. It written on the wall clear as day. There is no other explanation for it. The Aruban EXCUSE that they were using survelliance on the boys is BOGUS and was done to soothe the Holloways, the US media and the whole world to make it look they knew what they were doing.
    charles iii – there’s only one real charles iii and that’s the golfer charles howell III. you have no clue. The guilt and crime lies in Aruba, NOT with anyone in the United States. Give it a rest. The FBI have already interviewed the parties needed to be interviewed in Alabama. Give it a rest. It’s not being close minded but it’s looking REALITY in the face and REALITY is Joran Van der Sloot KILLED Natalee Holloway.
    The nitwits who think the blame lies in the US or with other people, do you care to put up your paycheck on it? If I were in Vegas and the odds of Joran killing Natalee was 3-1, 2-1, or even 3-5, I would lay the value of my estate home on it.

  361. Jaybo says:

    I just saw a report on CNN that stated that Ecuusearch has a lead that came through a psychic.
    The psychic has been in contact with Natalee over several days and has much information.
    The head of the team believes that it is a very credible lead.

  362. michele in bham says:

    I am the great and wonderfull MICHELE IN BHAM all bow down and kiss my ass. I know everything and you peeons know jack shit.

  363. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Who cares what you think Disappointed Aruban. You are one of them. You are probably hiding Natalees body right now. I should know I am an expert at this case.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I resent that. “One of them”? What, now it’s ‘us and them’? I thought the focus was on finding this girl and not pointing fingers.
    And if I knew anything it would’ve been revealed long time. I care about this girl, my friends are her age and my future is now in jeapordy because of this case. Hint hint.
    Tracker:
    The U.S. is no different. Nobody’s perfect, Aruba is not used to such case because these things never happen here.
    Americans don’t always solve their cases and even so it doesn’t take them less than a month on all cases either. Even with your sophisticated gadgets and the FBI some cases are solved 30 years later. You cannot compare.
    Uncle Al:
    If Beth and Jug have such information, than why did they not inform the authorities if they think it has any effect on the case? Why wait? I thought they wanted their daughter found.

  364. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Who cares what you think Disappointed Aruban. You are one of them. You are probably hiding Natalees body right now. I should know I am an expert at this case.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I resent that. “One of them”? What, now it’s ‘us and them’? I thought the focus was on finding this girl and not pointing fingers.
    And if I knew anything it would’ve been revealed long time. I care about this girl, my friends are her age and my future is now in jeapordy because of this case. Hint hint.
    Tracker:
    The U.S. is no different. Nobody’s perfect, Aruba is not used to such case because these things never happen here.
    Americans don’t always solve their cases and even so it doesn’t take them less than a month on all cases either. Even with your sophisticated gadgets and the FBI some cases are solved 30 years later. You cannot compare.
    Uncle Al:
    If Beth and Jug have such information, than why did they not inform the authorities if they think it has any effect on the case? Why wait? I thought they wanted their daughter found.

  365. samthebam says:

    Jaybo,
    Are you serious?

  366. hornet says:

    The Aruban polis and judicial system have screwed this case up so poorly that now they want to be the blame on someone else instead of the person(s) who did something with Natalee-
    I am surprised the the if the vds’s are 200% innocent then why are they out there defending their family name/reputation- put up a reward for a search for Natalee, show up bank statements that dispute the rumors of a large ATM withdrawal, show the phone records/text messages-
    If my family name was being smeared and the country in turmoil over this I would be busting me A** to show the workd i was innocnet~ none of which the vds’s are doing~ wonder why?

  367. PackerFanGirl says:

    Disappointed Arubian:
    I see Michele in Birmingham’s remark to you.
    Michele:
    I have been here for weeks and many times agree with your former remarks. I too have insulted Arubians and their country, their legal system and their government. I do it only in response to one unleashing on me first although I still stay open on whether I think justice is going to prevail or not and whether they screwed up the investigation or not.
    I doubt you like people who would call all people from Alabama rednecks, all people from my home state of Wisconsin hicks, etc., etc. Disappointed Arubian is being very civil, has questions to ask us as well and I don’t think did anything to you to ask for that kind of response.
    NH’s uncle in his letter reprinted on here to the newspaper in Aruba is even very considerate to the point of not painting all in that country as bad and thankful for the amount of caring people but you know friends of the friends of the friends and yet he is not even calling all Arubians bad.
    We had a national tragedy up here (our first) several months ago that made national media. For the most part the people in our area were good and kept the national media away from the family, offered nothing to them that was sensational, etc. but there were one or two who acted as though they were how tight with the victims, knew it all, etc. and were closer than the victims’ own family members. That is how you are coming across and it isn’t pretty. There were boards about that incident as well and I did not get on them and say I know it all, I am the expert even though I had some pretty close connections to them, much closer than friends of friends who have children who….
    I would swear in weeks past you have had posts I very much agreed with but now I think maybe I have you mistaken with someone else.
    I am very frustrated with Aruba, the process and I myself have judged them as a whole when an Arubian on here has done it to us first but Disappointed Arubian is on here with a bunch of us and being decent so save it for the idiots who get on here and say NH asked for it, was her own fault, etc., we certainly have seen enough of them!

  368. Dutchy says:

    @Moscow girl
    You rock girl!!
    *Applause

  369. Kap says:

    Uncle Al – you must have an IQ of about 3. Can’t you comprehend what the Holloway’s are saying about the information they know?
    I’ll try and state it as easy as I can for you to understand.
    The Aruban police have information.
    The Aruban police have a policy of not “letting the cat out of the bag” so to speak.
    The Aruban police have asked the Holloway’s not to reveal any information they have learned from them.
    The Holloway’s are frustrated that two murder accomplices have been let free(for the time being).
    The Holloway’s intend to reveal information they have learned from the Aruban police investigation that flies right in the face of letting the Kalpoe brothers go.
    This information will show the Joran and the Kalpoe brothers are deeply involved in Natalee’s disappearance.
    The information will also show the world that corruption and cover-ups exist in this case.
    Pretty plain and simple.

  370. not fair says:

    My wild guess is that Natalee’s family would reveal information that hasn’t been made public. It could be things that we have heard here or through other sources. Maybe not. It may from be tips they received through anonymous phone calls or messages. Let’s face it, everyone knows where they are staying. BUT I don’t think it’s information that Aruban LE is unaware of.
    Surely any tidbit they get is presented to the prosecutor and then revealed before the judge or disclosed to the other attorneys. (That is if Aruba has laws concerning disclosure as we do in the US. maybe someone familiar with Dutch law could let us know?)
    Anyway this is just my opinion.

  371. hornet says:

    Bottom line- Aruba cannot crack the case so they someone to blame instead of going after the person(s) involved in Natalee’s disappearance-
    Aruba’s judicial system for whatever reason did not want help and now the can’t crack the case!

  372. FlyingDee says:

    Disappointed Arubian said:
    Arubians have done alot in hopes of seeing positive results and all we’re getting is bad propaganda. No one even bothers to note that the boys involved aren’t even Arubians.
    I understand your frustration with the bad PR, Disappointed Arubian. But you have to admit that the local authorities kinda brought it on themselves; in the very beginning, they didn’t even detain & collect evidence from the prime suspects for 10 days! This isn’t a knock on Arubans, believe me. And I do understand that you’re upset about calous remarks that do so. But keep in mind that it is not a media fabrication that 10 days went by without proper evidence being collected, and FBI partnership on the case was turned down. That’s absolutely unacceptable in solving a crime, no matter what country you’re from.
    The last I checked, Joran has been living on Aruba for 15 of his 17 years. If you don’t classify him as an Aruban then that’s just rediculous. Immigrants to the U.S. would be classified as U.S. citizens after 15 years. C’mon, get real!

  373. Jaybo says:

    Samthebam,
    I just saw the report on CNN, that’s all I can tell you. I haven’t seen anything else yet.
    According to the report they are going to dive in water about a half a mile off of the north coast.

  374. RealityBased says:

    Dear Aruba,
    We, the undersigned, address you today with 2 issues foremost in our minds:
    1. We would like to apologize for the behavior and attitude of the Twitty family which we hope can be attributed to this emotionally trying time for them and that it is not their normal standard of public behavior. We would also like to assure you that not all American’s are like that. We understand that you are an entirely separate nation and not, in any way, a part of/less than or subservient to the United States and that you have a different legal system (which is not to say that it is better or worse than ours but only that it is different than we are used to and so we may not be as quick to understand and appreciate your patience).
    We understand that you are tenaciously and aggresively investigating the disappearance of Natalee Holloway and that you are, in fact, probably doing so more aggressively than law enforcement in the United States would had she disappeared here. (For example, we cannot cite a single instance of our law enforcement at federal, state, county or city level bringing in Navy Seals or F-16’s to search for a missing person.)
    We understand that you are under no obligation to allow FBI investigators or any other American organization (gov’t or private) access to your investigation and search efforts and we appreciate that you have so graciously and enthusiastically allowed and encouraged such assistance from the United States.
    We understand that the people and businesses of Aruba do not have an obligation to financially support the family and friends of Natalee Holloway for such an extended length of time and that you do so from simple generosity and that it is very unlikely that such accomodations and financial assistance, if she had disappeared in the United States, would have been made for her family here.
    Frankly, when it’s all said and done, if a person has to go missing then Aruba seems to be an excellent place to do so.
    2. A small thing perhaps given the seriousness of the situation but we miss Marianne Croes’ evening briefings- it warms the heart to see her so expertly (and apparently effortlessly) frustrate our American media by giving long, involved non-informative answers that only appear to confuse and irritate our media- nothing against Ms. Janssen or Mr. Trapenburg but please can’t we have Ms. Croes back?
    Sincerely and with Warm Wishes,
    A Large Reality Based Percentage of the American Public

  375. ikkuh says:

    Edra:
    Ned telt 12 privincies

  376. ss says:

    don’t be so sure of that Kap.. i can name a few cases the US didn’t figure out so quickly

  377. Spike says:

    I think it’s just sickening to even contemplate having your child or loved one disappear… that said, and as much as I hope for a good outcome and safe return of NH, it is unlikely at this point. If she is returned, she assuredly have undergone a nasty ordeal.
    We lose people in the US every day. Many of them to family members in custody battles, but many also to pieces of shit already convicted of sex crimes. I’m sure there are many who experience a wall of silence, and real or perceived incompetence and lack of urgency. I visualize rooms of cops smoked cigs and drinking coffee. Just another missing persons case, stiff, rape victim, perp, etc. Desensitized by a career of dealing with profounding sad reminders of just how fouled up so many people are.
    NH step dad is saying the information, once released, will “Shock” the world in respect of the Kalpoe release.
    If she were my daughter… the Kalpoe family would be putting out the “have you seen my boys?” posters. They’d be saying hello to a workshop full of conversation starters…

  378. Sassy177 says:

    I will never step foot in Aruba ever again, I don’t care if has nothing to do with Aruba the countr itself. I will never feel comfortable again.

  379. hornet says:

    Aruba you are represented by your gov’t, and thus what your gov’t does directly affects you and your county- stop blaming the media and talk to your gov’t as to how they decided to handle or not handle this disappearance-

  380. GrannyToad says:

    It’s my guess that the Holloways may have information given to them by Aruban police or prosecution.
    They may have developed information on their own as well, some or any of which may have been, or not, shared with police and prosecution. Beth has faithfully kept a diary recording who what where & when.
    That poor distraught mother.
    My, our, hearts go out with empathy to the family and especially Natalee’s mother.
    (What is the papiamento word for “disappeared”? verdwenen? desaparecido?)

  381. Realist says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense.

  382. grimer11 says:

    amen, Spike.

  383. FlyingDee says:

    Below, I have pasted a portion of the psychic medium transcript, as posted by another user in another blog on this site:
    Re: Spiritual Medium, Paula Zahn, CNN Transcript (JULY 5)
    QUADE (voice-over): The team eliminated other likely locations. Tides and currents and Mary Ann Morgan brought them here, to Aruba’s north shore.
    MARY ANN MORGAN, SPIRITUAL MEDIUM: Natalee three weeks ago, woke me up in the middle of the night…
    QUADE: Morgan is a medium who’s worked with police on several high-profile cases. She’s been secretly in Aruba, working with searchers. She says Holloway has been communicating with her.
    MORGAN: So she went through and gave me like five to seven detailed pages of notes about the whole circumstance, and that was three weeks ago. I’ve never been to Aruba. She gave me names of boats. She gave me coordinates.
    QUADE: Tim Miller says the information supports his team’s findings so far.
    (on camera): Where do you think that she is?
    MILLER: I think we’re going to find her right at this spot, half a mile offshore, (INAUDIBLE).
    QUADE (voice-over): The area has high swells.
    (on camera): What we’re worried about now about the waves. The seas are five to six feet out there.
    (voice-over): It’s a place divers don’t visit, and boats only rarely. But the volunteer searchers are going to risk it.
    Gene Ralston is a sonar expert who worked on the Laci Peterson case. He shows what he’s looking for.
    GENE RALSTON, SONAR EXPERT: Sometimes the shadow will tell you as much about what the object is as the object itself, or as in this case…
    QUADE (on camera): I mean, this is very obvious. It looks like a body…
    RALSTON: Yes.
    QUADE: Because you can see…
    RALSTON: And you can see shadow coming from his toes right here, sticking up.
    QUADE (voice-over): Ralston is also scanning for anything that looks like a box.
    MILLER: I think that they also put her inside of something. They weighted her down.
    QUADE (on camera): You think she might be in a box, weighted down in there?
    MILLER: Pretty sure that she is.
    QUADE (voice-over): Police have not said they should be looking for a container.
    RALSTON: This is the area that has been identified as a distinct possibility for where she may have been placed.
    QUADE (on camera): And right now, our problems are?
    RALSTON: Well, the sea is (INAUDIBLE) sidescan images.
    QUADE (voice-over): Anticipation is high, but so is the surf.
    Next day, the conditions are still bad, but Ralston gets a sonar hit. RALSTON: We have something right there.
    QUADE (on camera): Something? So you got something there, but you don’t know what it is?
    RALSTON: That’s correct.
    QUADE (voice-over): The divers go out. All they find are oddly shaped rocks.
    It’s exhausting work.
    After a tropical depression passes on day three of this mission, the seas are calm. That’s when Ralston picks up a sonar image that looks like a box. The divers mark the spot with a buoy.
    UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The (INAUDIBLE), I have to look at the charts, but around 20-some minutes, 25 minutes.
    QUADE: They find nothing. But will try again.
    (on camera): You’re taking a risk, your divers are taking a risk.
    MILLER: Everybody’s taking a risk. We almost lost a boat out there yesterday.
    QUADE (voice-over): Tim Miller and his team believe it’s just a matter of time and resources before they find Natalee Holloway.
    MILLER: We never came here to be in the criminal business. We’ve…
    QUADE (on camera): But you’re playing a pivotal role. If you find this body, I men, this is the key to the case.
    MILLER: She’s our girl. When we bring her up, you got an investigation. We’re going to bring our girl up.
    QUADE (voice-over): And they are prepared if they don’t.
    MILLER: The day may come where we’ve exhausted our resources, and we’ll have to leave this island. We’ll all have tears in our eyes, but we’ll know that we made every single attempt.

  384. Kap says:

    Realitybased – speak for yourself! You don’t speak for the majority of Americans!!! I don’t know who made you the holier than thou. Get lost and be apologetic for yourself. Don’t EVER speak for me again.
    ss – true there have been cases but none where they would have had the PRIME suspects hours after her disapperance. I can assure you they would have had warrants etc to search everything before they would have been let go.

  385. Realist says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense.

  386. Edra says:

    Dank U en Masha Danki naar “ikkuh”
    I forgot Flevoland…
    “ikkuh” reminded me, in Dutch, that the Netherlands has 12 provinces where I wrote of only eleven…(Ned telt 12 privincies)
    Thank you in English, Dank U in Dutch, and Masha Danki in Papiamento.

  387. Jag says:

    Dan, it’s obvious Michele in bham is just trying to get attention. Why give her the forum? I have been following this case and reading this blog from the beginning. I appreciate your efforts and have learned much from you and the posters here. Please don’t let michele and posters like her shut down this site.
    BTW, I don’t think she’s from Birmingham, at least I hope not. It’s an embarrassment if she is.
    jag

  388. AlabamaSUX says:

    to melja56 :
    i’m from texas and been to alabama and moscow. dude, wake up and smell the trailer park, moscow is a lot cooler place. where is your masters from? Huntsville College in Heflin,AL????? the coolest thing about alabama is that mobile is close to panama city beach and new orleans. now that being said, GO WAR EAGLE!

  389. ss says:

    the holloways/twitty’s or whatever they are going by have no “Shocking” infomation in regards to this case or they would have already told the abundance of reporters hanging around with them.. It is amazing to me how quickly the Groene children’s faces fell of the television when they were abducted, and a month later reporters are still hanging on the heels of Natalies family…Tell me money has nothing to do with it ??

  390. hornet says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense.
    Sure does appear that way thus far!

  391. FlyingDee says:

    The psychic’s website:
    http://www.maryannmorgan.org/

  392. Realist says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense.

  393. mike 1 says:

    realist I’m sure they didn’t “realize” the ramifications of their actions – who would have thought there’d be this kind of media attention.

  394. Realist says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense.

  395. bobup says:

    Realist: it started out to be a little sweep under the rug coverup, but quickly got out of hand when Beth and Jug showed up

  396. ss says:

    Kap.. can you say Jon Benet Ramsey ?? Don’t be so naive to think that cover-ups don’t exist in the US and that the US doesn’t screw things up also…

  397. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Exactly. The Aruban government would do all they can possibly do to solve this case. We all know that Aruba is now on the spotlight. No one is stupid enough to jeopardize our economy for ONE ‘friend’. Hell no, I’d be the first to personally slap the minister if he should favor the VD Sloots.
    I think that everything is being done. We have more Dutch militants coming here to help in the search for Natalee.
    I’m hearing the F-16’s above my head as I type.
    RealityBased:
    Thank you, I know from experience that most Americans are actually very kind and caring. I’ve worked with tourists for several years and have come to enjoy the presence of Americans here.
    It’s just such a shame to see how some Americans are pointing fingers and blaming all Arubians in general when most of us still can’t believe the girl is missing. Arubians are baffled and can’t understand how this could have possible happened. Aruba is in fact one of the safest places on earth and all Arubians know why and how this is done and the sacrifices that had to be made to achieve such safety.

  398. grimer11 says:

    amen, Spike.

  399. Edra says:

    Reality Based,
    Thank you, in English, for your wisdom and your excellent written words.
    I would appreciate your sending your thoughtful piece to Greta van Susteren and to Julie Renfro of Aruba Today and Jossy Mansur of Diario. Both of them, and the weary people of Aruba would appreciate your good sense and the time you have taken to write with such eloquence.
    It is understood that your words are personal and come from your heart and they are taken in that sense.
    Few people can put their thoughts into written form as you have done.
    With your permission, I would like to send your letter to my childhood friends and classmates who live in many parts of the world, now, but are connected via the internet and still care, deeply, about each other and our little island in the wind.
    Regards,
    Edra van Buuren de Lange

  400. FlyingDee says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense.
    First of all, if it is a murder, do you think one guy could commit the “perfect crime” with minimal time left before daylight? Hmmmmm…
    And if it is a coverup (murder or not), do you honestly think they would be covering up just “one” guy. Very unlikely. It’s much more probable that multiple parties are involved.
    And who is Steve Croes anyways? And why did he make an admitedly false “cover” story for “one” guy that he says he doesn’t even know.
    IMHO it is a coverup, but I could be wrong. If I am wrong, you have to admit there sure are a lot of “funny” coincidences.

  401. Kap says:

    ss- you don’t know jack. you don’t know what the holloway’s have. i’ll take their word over anything you have to say. you are right on part, money has a lot to do with it, particularly on the Aruban side, NOT the Holloway’s. Are you now saying the Holloway’s are paying the American media to keep the story alive? You’re a moron.
    realist – you answered your own question. they are covering this up to protect their economy.

  402. mike 1 says:

    Realist – I don’t think they “realized” the ammount of coverage this would gartner. They don’t call it the Hospitality Industry for nothing. Arua has damaged themselves to such a degree it will take years for it’s tourism industry to recover (if at all). The protest signs said “respect Dutch law or go home” (to a mother who in all likelyhood has lost her daughter). I’m sure she would like to take her daughter home. Not somewhere I’d like to vacation.

  403. dave1082 says:

    With regard to the “No body, no crime” statement, did anyone stop to consider how that could have been taken out of context. Discussion may have been to try and calm the kids down who were worried that they were being looked at as suspects in NHs disappearance since she was seen with them last. Father could have said to the boys, “calm down, there’s no proof of a crime here, its not like they have found her dead body”….. Im not saying thats what happened but without specifics how do we know otherwise?

  404. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    There is a post above that says I am a large woman, etc., etc., etc. under MY name. I would have to guess this is from MICHELE. Let’s see she is the one who called someone a fat ass earlier, now I am large. Guess that tells us she is the LARGE one who cannot leave her home and therefore has to vent on ALL of us on this page. Boy I guess I must have hit a nerve with my remarks to get such a response.
    Dan, I ditto Jag above!
    For the record Michele, not large whatsoever. In fact, my looks are quite envied so I guess I would bother you greatly, jealous as you seem to be and attention seeking as you seem to be. I can ALMOST pity you but not quite, you are not a nice person. I also have a very fun life maybe that is why I can turn around and be nice to people.
    If she is from Birmingham people, don’t think the H family and the other students, etc. will be too happy with her representation of the area. I have a feeling though that she/he highjacked the Michele in Birmingham name too. So hope you can discern between the posts from her and me, changing my name now but just guessing she/he will do it again.
    Am also emailing Dan about Michele, anyone want to join me????

  405. condor says:

    Why aren’t missing people in the U.S. getting as much attention as Natalee? What’s so special about her case except the fact that it happened on an island with a very low crime rate?
    ———————————————
    Totally wrong, two words: Chandra Levy. Was a huge story? Why? Because a government official was suspected of being involved in the dissapearance and cover up of a young woman. Sound familiar? So no, you’re not being singled out, politicians or government officials involved in this sort of thing is big news, in any country. Fair and balanced enough for you?
    Also, look at your own island and maybe put some of the blame where it belongs. On this island that has “virtually no crime” in the month since people have been paying attention including NH there has been a beheading, another murder, and a whole boat full of people have come up missing. So either the characterization of “virtually never” is wrong, or the global spotlight coincidentally shined on your little island while you were in the midst of your biggest crime-wave ever…. You really wonder why most Americans aren’t buying it? Maybe you should blame your own govt for not clearing up “little” discrepancies like this. And like the one pointed out earlier in this thread, where the same govt who “doesn’t need” help from our fbi has basically sublet at least one of it’s ships out to the American Coast Guard drug task force, from whom they seem to have no problem at all recieving help, or letting them hanle those apprehended…. Which makes sense I guess, if they are charged in US courts thats just one more incident of crime your island can claim “virtually never” happens.
    As for the spotlight shining on your little island, well we all know what cockraoches do when the lights come on, and I know from experiance there’s some big damn roaches in the tropics….

  406. hornet says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense
    Have there every been past cover-ups and no one was there to bust it wide open~~
    it’s just this time an American is the one that has disappeared and now Aruba will need to not only answer to the family, but the US, and the world!
    People(s) in Aruba created this situation with Natalee’s disappearance and now they need to make it right!

  407. Kap says:

    yep dave, you now qualify as a moron too!
    geez, i swear the mental capacity of some of you people is unbearable.
    i mean really, come on….
    the reason he said it is because he knows what happened. there are NO other suspects.

  408. honret says:

    Seriously people, do you really think for one second that the Aruba government would jeopardize their economy to cover up for “one” guy……use your common sense
    Have there every been past cover-ups and no one was there to bust it wide open~~
    it’s just this time an American is the one that has disappeared and now Aruba will need to not only answer to the family, but the US, and the world!
    People(s) in Aruba created this situation with Natalee’s disappearance and now they need to make it right!

  409. ss says:

    great job reality…

  410. sol rosenberg says:

    dave1082 –
    Are you having an affair with Paulus?

  411. bhamsteph says:

    @ Realist:
    Don’t presume that you speak for all Americans…you certainly do not speak for THIS American.
    I do not apologize for the behavior and attitude of the Twitty family. Under the circumstances, they have been more than cooperative, cordial, and mild-mannered. Perhaps it is their Southern Roots. :)
    Aruba may have a different legal system, and that’s fine by me. What is NOT fine is how those who are elected or appointed to enforce Aruba’s laws are not failing to do so. To release the last 3 people seen with a missing person based on their lie (oops I mean “story”) that it was two security guards is frankly idiotic.
    I understand that the Aruban government and police are “investigating” (if you can even call it that) Natalee’s disappearance in a most slovenly manner. I KNOW that they are not doing it any more aggressively than the U.S. would, because our country has had to involve itself to get the investigation started on a proper course. If we can’t cite a single instance of F-16’s being used to locate a missing person, that is because we are SMART ENOUGH to know that a F-16 is not going to help find Natalee; well, maybe it would if she was hanging around up in the sky somewhere! Forget the claim that these jets are equipped with sonar equipment–we have a very able-bodied and competent group searching with equal-to (or probably better than) the sonar equipment used by the Aruban F-16s…and they aren’t flying around 30,000 feet above the island!!!
    Maybe Aruba isn’t under any obligation to allow the FBI or any other American agency’s help, but for a small protectorate in the Caribbean to refuse help from the single-most powerful nation in the WORLD is IDIOTIC. We aren’t trying to tell you how to run your country or change your laws; we have one of our own missing and we want to bring her home. If you’d let us help you, we’d leave you alone! Don’t be so prideful. I’d like to think that if an Aruban teen was missing in the US and his or her parents were searching for him or her, the US would welcome any and all assistance they could get from the Arubans and other Dutch.
    One last thing, Realist (and Aruba)–the people and businesses of Aruba don’t have an obligation to financially support the family and friends of Natalee Holloway, nor are they doing so. People who actually CARE about whether Natalee is found are donating money into a trust account at AmSouth Bank so that this very brave mother can stay in Aruba until she finds Natalee. Her friends at home tirelessly set up fundraisers and prayer vigils to provide support–both financially and emotionally. That’s what we do for each other here in America (and especially the South). We look out for each other.
    Realist, you may wish that if you went missing it would be in Aruba…but as for me, I’d rather stay right where I am, thank you very much.
    Beth and Jug–a little love for you from Sweet Home Alabama…you know you guys can count on the support of us “down home”
    Down home, where they know you by name
    And treat you like family
    Down home, a man’s good word and a hand shake
    Are all you need
    Folks know, if they’re falling on hard times
    They can fall back on
    Thos of us raised up down home.
    (Lyrics to “Down Home” by Alabama)

  412. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    DeeDee, thanks but as stated above that was not me posting, it was Michele, Michele, Michele. Lucky for me I do not like milk even being from Wisconsin and although I like cheese, do not eat a lot of it. I suspect Michele from B-ham (yeah right) eats more of it than I do or maybe its the fried chicken…… But thanks for being sorry about my weight problem! Least there is some sympathy out there! LOL.

  413. hornet says:

    With regard to the “No body, no crime” statement, did anyone stop to consider how that could have been taken out of context. Discussion may have been to try and calm the kids down who were worried that they were being looked at as suspects in NHs disappearance since she was seen with them last. Father could have said to the boys, “calm down, there’s no proof of a crime here, its not like they have found her dead body”….. Im not saying thats what happened but without specifics how do we know otherwise?
    Then why did the boys make up the first lie and then the second and I think Joren has had about 8 differnet version by now~ like I said IF vds’s are innocent they sure as he** are shouting out/speaking up to defend themselves or their family name now are they?

  414. FNHQ says:

    Mrs. van Buuren de Lange
    Thank you very much for your post.

  415. Disappointed Arubian says:

    What experience condor?
    By the way, the body that was dug up was from a man who died several years ago and suddenly people were doubting the cause of his death and decided to bury it out for autopsy.
    The beheading was done by a colombian girl who found out her husband was having a child with someone else. Not an Arubian. Like I said, our prison cells are mostly populated by foreigners.
    And no, you haven’t been reading well. No new people have come up missing. People wanted to bring out the fact that when other people who went missing in the past, did not get as much attention as Natalee is getting now. They were making a point. So far, only Natalee is missing.
    Joran might have been living here for 15 years, but that does not mean he’s been ‘Arubianized’. His family has Dutch traditions, morals and ways of living. He was not brought up the Arubian way.
    His papers may say ‘Arubian’, but he’s not Arubian at heart, which is a big difference.

  416. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    bhamsteph,
    are you truly from Birmingham? if so, why don’t you give Michele a test to see if she is really from Birmingham? Something she could not find the answer to on the internet and something only someone like you living there would know, or about the Mountainbrook school. of course she seems to have disappeared. She last posted under may name PackerFanGirl and then went silent!

  417. RealityBased says:

    Edra, a copy was sent to Aruba Today. I will send a copy to the Diario as well. I worry that Greta has an agenda in making sure she gets ratings and probably would not welcome the letter. Please feel free to share our feelings with the Aruban people.

  418. FlyingDee says:

    With regard to the “No body, no crime” statement, did anyone stop to consider how that could have been taken out of context. Discussion may have been to try and calm the kids down who were worried that they were being looked at as suspects in NHs disappearance since she was seen with them last. Father could have said to the boys, “calm down, there’s no proof of a crime here, its not like they have found her dead body”….. Im not saying thats what happened but without specifics how do we know otherwise?
    We also must consider the Greta – Mickey John interview; portion of transcript below:
    VAN SUSTEREN: But under the now story, which is that they dropped the Dutch teen and Natalee off at the beach, Deepak and Satish hadn’t done anything wrong. So why did they need a cover story?
    JOHN: Well, I don’t know. I think these people, they have a plot together. He, as you can see (INAUDIBLE) so they, together with the Dutch guy, decide, “Maybe we can plan something,” because they were together — they left the nightclub together. They were together.
    The wouldn’t say what happened with the girl, if he had fought with the girl. But they said they weren’t — he told me they went to the California lighthouse. On their way back, they dropped the Dutch guy with Natalee close to the Marriott Hotel. He and his brother, Deepak, they went home.
    VAN SUSTEREN: How certain are you that that your memory is correct that the family or the father was involved in creating this cover-up story?
    JOHN: Well, he told me — he, all of them, sit and make up the story. He, Dutch guy, and the family. He told me they made up a story that they said they dropped the girl off at the Holiday Inn. She was talking to a black guy, security guard specific, dressed in black pants, black top.
    VAN SUSTEREN: So what percentage certain are you that he said family or father that was involved in this?
    JOHN: He said family.
    VAN SUSTEREN: So you’re certain?
    JOHN: I’m certain.
    Either it is a “coverup” or Mickey John is lying. If Mickey John is lying, then he would likely be in custody at this point.

  419. mike 1 says:

    I can’t believe the Aruban peoples response to Natalee’s mother. A mother who just (in all likelyhood) lost her child. 200 protesters?? I think a mother who’s lost a child has a license to be upset and angry, etc. If I had lost my little girl I would go “postal”. I think she shown quite a bit of composure. You can just see the pain in her face. Arubans are not nice people. I hope those 200 protesters are in an unemployment line next month.

  420. Realist says:

    Have they interviewed any or all of the students that were traveling with Natalee or is that a big no no also.
    Remember I don’t want to “offend” anyone.

  421. grimer11 says:

    hey realitybased….why don’t you just walk it over the el diario offices yourself?….make sure to save any tin cans you find on the way there and back….you are going to need them.

  422. liar says:

    Mickey had an axe to grind, pissed about being arrested. He said he wished the prosecutors would “burn in hot lava” ..LOL
    He never said a word about the father the first time he told this story, go see transcripts…when he was released from jail. Now he comes up with this. He would not look at Gretta during this interview at all, lying to me.

  423. ss says:

    right Kap i am the moron and you are so brilliant… all knowing.. all seeing… they why the hell haven’t you solved this case. I thought this was a place where people could put their thoughts out there are learn others.. not somewhere where you made yourself feel better by insulting other people for their thoughts. Grow up..

  424. FlyingDee says:

    Disappointed Arubian:
    I have not bashed Arubans, nor do I think any lower of them. It’s the Aruban “higher-ups” that I’m worried about. You answered my question about Joran “only” living on the island 15 years, so therefore I guess he’s not Aruban. I’ll leave my personal opinion out of that one…lol.
    But you don’t seem to have an answer for the 10 days that passed without evidence being collected from the prime suspects, or the FBI being allowed/invited to partner in the investigation. Aren’t you the least bit concerned about the way your government has handled this case?
    Once again, this is not a knock on your people, just a question about the “cover-up” that appears to be going on down there. Any ideas? Aren’t you bothered by it? It doesn’t look good.

  425. Alvaro says:

    No doubt this is all a tragedy, but whats funny is how much of this has turned into a promotion of the great “South”. People are moving there NOW, because the good places in the U.S. filled up. Let’s not forget that piss poor/tainted investigations and prosecutions like the one going on in Aruba were a hallmark of your great “South”. There is more than enough nationalistic b.s. coming from both sides(three sides if you count the America haters who love to pile on) on these posts already, do you southerners have to throw in regionalism too? Southern this, southern that… you lost the friggin’ war, now your’e just American.

  426. bobup says:

    ss: you got the moron part right, now if you could only grasp the rest of it

  427. Disappointed Arubian says:

    One last thing, Realist (and Aruba)–the people and businesses of Aruba don’t have an obligation to financially support the family and friends of Natalee Holloway, nor are they doing so.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I suggest you catch up on your reading before posting ‘speculations’.
    Local businesses have and are still financially supporting the family despite all ugly remarks.
    Aruba Tourism and Indusrty Association (ATIA) has made donations to the family and arranged their stay on the island free of charge. The family is not paying a cent to stay here, they sleep, eat and travel for free here. The family has already reached the amount of 20,000 Aruban guilders which is the equivalent of U$$ 11,428.57
    Need I say more?
    Anonymous families have donated generous amounts to the family as well as the government.
    And any other civilian who wants to make a donation can do so.

  428. FlyingDee says:

    Have they interviewed any or all of the students that were traveling with Natalee or is that a big no no also. Remember I don’t want to “offend” anyone.
    The FBI questioned them and shared the info with Aruban authorities. They have been ruled out as suspects in this case by Aruban authorities.

  429. ss says:

    alvaro where are you from ??

  430. MadeinAmerica says:

    RealityBased
    Thank you for that post. I stand by everything you wrote and you do speak for me.
    I think people are being extremely harsh on Aruba, its officials, its judicial system and as an American it appalls me. We as Americans would be so ticked off if a foreign government came in and started criticizing an investigation of a missing person from another country who went missing here.
    This case should not just revolve around cultural differences. Let’s all remember that in America we have problems solving our own cases. Who are we to judge another country who I believe are sincerely trying to solve what happened to Natalee?

  431. RealityBased says:

    grimer11,
    I would walk it over, but unfortunately I don’t walk on water yet, but I’m working on it, since I’m American and all. (roll eyes)

  432. Alvaro says:

    Texas, does it matter?

  433. mike 1 says:

    Disapointed Aruban – Those 200 protesters didn’t seem so “kind and caring” when protesting a mother who just (most likely) lost a child. Did you see the pain in her face? What kind of people wouldn’t understand her torment? Arubans protest her, what a nice island. People will not soon forget your “hospitality”.

  434. bobup says:

    Alvaro: are you still wet from crossing the river

  435. Edra says:

    Reality based is not an Arubian…she has given away enough hints in her excellent writing to prove that she is exactly what others writing here are…caring, concerned Americans who have visited our island and speak from experience with good judgement.
    Bon Bini, Bishita…
    Masha danki,
    Edra van Buuren de Lange
    Spaanslagoenweg
    Pos Chiquito
    Aruba
    Dutch Caribbean

  436. SvL says:

    The American image according to the Arubans in a Dutch (Christian) newspaper today.
    First the original Dutch text folleowed by my amateur (sorry for the mishaps) translation.
    Tieners VS feesten vooral op Aruba
    door onze correspondent Nina Jurna
    ORANJESTAD – De op Aruba vermiste tiener Natalee Holloway wordt in de media neergezet als een keurig, onschuldig, conservatief meisje van achttien dat op schoolreisje ging. Geen meisje dat zich op Aruba zou uitleven. Maar is dat wel realistisch?
    Arubanen weten het: maandelijks komen duizenden Amerikaanse jongeren naar het eiland voor seks, drugs en drank. Op Aruba mag je, in tegenstelling tot thuis in Amerika, al op je zestiende drinken en voor een jointje beland je niet in de gevangenis. “”Hier doen ze alles wat ze thuis niet mogen en zeker niet kunnen”, vertelt Gijs van ‘t Hullenaar. Hij is manager van enkele bars en nachtclubs, zoals van Moomba Beach, een populaire strandtent pal naast het hotel Holiday Inn, waar Natalee Holloway logeerde.
    Los
    Van ‘t Hullenaar schetst een duidelijk beeld van de Amerikanen zoals hij ze tijdens zijn horecacarrière op het eiland heeft leren kennen. ,,Ze kennen geen grenzen. Ze gaan helemaal los. Ze drinken abnormaal veel, ze blowen en gebruiken vaak ook meer drugs. Ook de meiden. Die zijn misschien nog wel erger dan de jongens. Ze flirten met de barkeepers en komen vragen om gratis drank.”Als we niets hoeven te betalen, zetten we je tent op stelten en maken we een leuk feestje’ zeggen ze dan.”
    In Amerika mogen jongeren vanaf hun 21e verjaardag alcohol drinken en tot die tijd komen ze ook geen bar binnen. Op Aruba gelden de veel soepeler Nederlandse regels.”De jonge Amerikanen komen niet gewoon gezellig de bar binnen om wat te drinken; nee, ze willen stomdronken worden. Soms leggen ze gewoon een pakketje dollars op de bar en zeggen: ‘geef me iets voor dit geld waar ik zo snel mogelijk dronken van word.”
    In de zaak van de vermiste Amerikaanse studente Natalee Holloway werd Van ‘t Hullenaar ook verhoord. Tegenover de politie en ook in een uitzending van de Amerikaanse televisiezender Fox heeft hij de reputatie van de Amerikaanse jeugd niet onder stoelen of banken gestoken.”Heel wat Amerikaanse ouders weten waarschijnlijk niet wat hun kinderen hier op Aruba allemaal uitspoken”.
    Hypocriet
    Hij vindt het hypocriet nu net te doen alsof het er hier allemaal zo netjes aan toe gaat, hoe vreselijk het ook is dat het meisje wordt vermist.”Maar dat ze stomdronken uit de nachtclub kwam, dat hoor je wel hier op het eiland, maar lees je niet terug in de Amerikaanse pers. Natuurlijk zeggen alle ouders: zulke dingen doet mijn dochter niet. Maar dat zeiden mijn ouders vroeger ook over mij”.
    ————————————————————————————————————
    Above all US teenagers party on Aruba
    by our correpondent Nina Jurna (Nederlands Dagblad)
    ORANJESTAD- The missing teenager Natalee Hollway is being described in the media as a tidy, innocent, conservative eighteen year old girl on a graduation trip. Not a girl who would be a party animal on Aruba. But is this surely realistic?
    Arubans know this: every month thousands of American juniors bcome to the island for sex, drugs and booze. On Aruba you are allowed, contrary to the situation at home in America, drink when you are sixteen and for (smoking) a joint you will not end up in jail.
    ”Here they do everything what they are not allowed to do at home and surely can’t do at home”, Gijs van ‘t Hullenaar says. As a manager he owns several bar and nightclubs, like Moomba Beach, a popular beach club right next to the Hollyday Inn where Natalee Holloway was staying.
    Loose
    Van ’t Hullenaar illustrates a clear image of the Americans as he has gotten to know them throughout his carreer on the island. “They have no limits. They’re going totally loose. They are drinking excessively, they smoke pot and often use other drugs as well. Likewise the girls. May be they are even worse than the boys. Thet flirt with bartenders and ask for free drinks.
    “We will cheer up this place and make a big party if we don’t have to pay”, they say.
    In America juniors are permitted to have alcoholic beverages from age 21 and before that they cannot even visit a bar. On Aruba we have the much more flexible Dutch regulations. “The young Amricans don’t just just enter a bar to socialize and enjoy a drink; no, they want to become blind drunk. Sometimes they just drop a pacjage of dollars on the bar and say: “Give me something for this that makes me drunk fast”.
    Van ’t Hullenaar was heard in the case of the missing American graduate Natalee Holloway. In talks with the police and also during a Fox interview he didn’t restrain in describing the reputation of the American youth. “A lot of American parents probably have no idea what their children are messing with here on Aruba”.
    Hypocrisy
    He (Van ’t Hullenaar) thinks it is hypocritical to pretend that everything that happens here is going so decent and proper over here, not to mention the dreadful fact of the missing girl. “But that she left the nightclub ‘blind drunk’, yes that’s what we hear on the island, but you never read this in the American press.
    Ofcourse all parents say: “My daughter doesn’t do these things. But that is what my parents used to say about me too”.
    Link: http://www.nd.nl/newsite/artikel.asp?id=64777

  437. wreck says:

    Packerfan, that wasn’t michelle from Birmingham anymore than the same troll that ghosted you. YOU WERE BOTH GHOSTED !You are smarter than that!!

  438. Realist says:

    Ok..so let me get this straight. The american students were ruled out as suspects and nobody ever speaks of them again. While the “surinam boys” were also ruled out as suspects but yet……………………
    The arubans respect FBI’s “ruling out”, so why don’t the americans respect the arubans “ruling out”.

  439. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Aren’t you the least bit concerned about the way your government has handled this case?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ofcourse I am, I’m generally pissed that they still haven’t got anything concrete. I’ve been wanting to walk in there and personally slap all the investigators and have a serious talk with the minister of justice.
    They said they released them to keep them under investigation. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows.
    What I would think, the boys maybe thought they go off easy and would be a bit more loose with what they say to their friends on the phone or the internet and may eventually slip. Just my opinion. They did tap their phones and take their PC’s for further investigation.

  440. ss says:

    bobup noone pulled your chain

  441. Alvaro says:

    bobup
    do you still run around barefoot or have shoes caught on?

  442. FlyingDee says:

    Mickey had an axe to grind, pissed about being arrested. He said he wished the prosecutors would “burn in hot lava” ..LOL
    He never said a word about the father the first time he told this story, go see transcripts…when he was released from jail. Now he comes up with this. He would not look at Gretta during this interview at all, lying to me.
    Posted by: liar | July 6, 2005 03:30 PM
    I haven’t seen the “burn in hot lava” quote; would like to see that, as he sure sounds mild mannered when he speaks. Yes, he did speak about the father prior to the interview; that was one of the reasons the father was detained. He looked at Greta repeatedly during the interview, as well as at the camera. I suggest you watch it again…you can get to it from the following link:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html
    then click on the VIDEO button
    then click on the link that says ‘Watch the Interview’
    So, what do you have against Mickey John anyways? We just want to solve this case. Please stick to the facts.

  443. Vander F says:

    So 200 Arubans were pissed *ff,
    how many Americans on this log alone are pissed *ff?

  444. ss says:

    alvaro.. no it doesn’t matter.i am from texas also.. i was just wondering…

  445. mike1 says:

    Disapointed Aruban – $11,428.57??? wow!! And make it a point to say they’re not “obligated”. lol Let’s see how many tourists a year? What would you say an average tourist spends? Isn’t that like 4 or 5 HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS? Arubans are SO generous.$11,428.57 lol AND you know they’re not “obligated”

  446. condorsa says:

    I wouldn’t even bother FD, someone who really trots out “Well he’s only lived here for 15 years, he’s not really one of us” is going to be able to rationalize or minimalize any negatives to themselves, why even bother asking for them. Remember, the reason nothing was done for 10 days is because people usually show up later right? I mean people wandering off and going on crack binges must be so commonplace on the island that it wasn’t worth looking into…. Seriously, you have to be delusional if you expect anyone in America to believe you have “virtually no crime” when in the very next breath you act blase’ about people going on a 10 day crack smoking spree….
    Oh and yes, i have read reports of a whole boat gone missing since NH, the Pollywog or something, I’m sure others here know what I’m talking about. Gotta love your consistency too, the beheading doesn’t count because the beheader wasn’t “Arubian” enough either… think I’m gonna shorten the term “Arubian” to just plain “Rube” cause if your island really believes this shit I got a couple of bridges to sell you…

  447. ss says:

    alvaro you’ll have to leave bobup alone…he is mearly a fool who gets his jollies from talking about people he doesn’t know anything about…

  448. FlyingDee says:

    Mickey had an axe to grind, pissed about being arrested. He said he wished the prosecutors would “burn in hot lava” ..LOL
    He never said a word about the father the first time he told this story, go see transcripts…when he was released from jail. Now he comes up with this. He would not look at Gretta during this interview at all, lying to me.
    Posted by: liar | July 6, 2005 03:30 PM
    I haven’t seen the “burn in hot lava” quote; would like to see that, as he sure sounds mild mannered when he speaks. Yes, he did speak about the father prior to the interview; that was one of the reasons the father was detained. He looked at Greta repeatedly during the interview, as well as at the camera. I suggest you watch it again…you can get to it from the following link:
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html
    then click on the VIDEO button
    then click on the link that says ‘Watch the Interview’
    So, what do you have against Mickey John anyways? We just want to solve this case. Please stick to the facts.

  449. bobup says:

    now that ss, real, alvaro and roger are here, who’s the pivot man :)

  450. vcsiii50 says:

    SVL:
    WTF does that have to do with finding Natalee?

  451. Disappointed Arubian says:

    mike 1 :
    I was rather disappointed by both parties. Beth for accusing people of a crime she does not know if they committed or not and 200 protesters do not represent all of Aruba.
    I guess they were appalled to be referred to as ‘inept’ and felt insulted. I would too but not enough to protest. Remember, not all Arubians are ‘smart’ and consider other people’s feelings and I’m positive that not all the protesters were Arubians either. Most of them were those who are related to the boys or atleast in favor of them, which I am not.
    Ofcourse I disagree with them for protesting, I was embarassed by their ignorant and selfish behaviour.
    And by the way, the money we get a year does actually go somewhere. Like maybe our own development and debts? Did you think of that?
    Salaries, other businesses, taxes.
    We give what we POSSIBLY can. We can’t give everything we have, everything we have is already at stake.

  452. Disappointed Arubian says:

    mike 1 :
    I was rather disappointed by both parties. Beth for accusing people of a crime she does not know if they committed or not and 200 protesters do not represent all of Aruba.
    I guess they were appalled to be referred to as ‘inept’ and felt insulted. I would too but not enough to protest. Remember, not all Arubians are ‘smart’ and consider other people’s feelings and I’m positive that not all the protesters were Arubians either. Most of them were those who are related to the boys or atleast in favor of them, which I am not.
    Ofcourse I disagree with them for protesting, I was embarassed by their ignorant and selfish behaviour.

  453. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Wreck, I do realize that. When I made my remark I questioned exactly that, doubting it was Michele from Birmingham and that is when I got ghosted next. I emailed Dan about it.
    Disappointed Arubian, I think you can feel free to talk with FlyingDee. She actually is stating what most of us feel and why we are so upset. She seems to understand it is not the Arubans but the higher ups that we are really upset with and just wondering if you see why that bothers us. I would like to share email addresses with you through Dan if you are willing to do so.
    Mike1:
    I feel much as you do. We all do. I too have bashed Aruba and Arubians who get on here and bash us. I too will never go there if this does not result in justice. However, Disappointed Arubian is very civil and tries to respond to anyone who is decent as well. If you look back you will see that. and some not nice things were said first to Disappointed Arubian. One other thing, I saw at Scared Monkeys web site that the Aruban press saying 200 protestors was stretching it, it said if you took away the people/public watching, some of which I would guess would have been concerned Americans, it was more like 50, just a fringe element of Aruba. In other words, it is no more representative of this island of 100,000 than if maybe 50 demonstrated here out of one of our cities of 100,000 which is really nothing. I respond scathingly to anyone on here stating they are from Aruba and attacking us first but Disappointed Arubian has been decent, even stating she cares about finding Natalee and believes the boys are probably guilty. I for one have not heard that often from over there so just letting you know that in case you did not realize.

  454. calista says:

    wow…..it seems everyone is getting really heated about this……well…..I live in America and I have nothing against any other country but the simple fact is the aruba police and government have made a mess of this investigation and covered things up and that is plain to anyone. They let the admitted last people to be seen with her go without even checking their homes, clothing, or cars for evidence and chased after two innocent people then two weeks later decided to go search and obviously came up with nothing…they are allowing people to be involved in this case who are friends of the father who is a judge or judge trainee whatever it is and has ties to the judicial system, they go on tv and say all 3 boys are already charged with murder then they let them go 2 days later, they have admitted that they know joran’s dad has said he told them “no body no case” btu they let him go free, they know the 3 boys all made up lies about where they left natalee and they let two of them go anyway, they won’t allow the fbi to help them or use any american resources available tot hem and have hindered help from the search team brought in from texas, clearly the holloway family knows more than they are saying about what happened and must be being threatened if they release the info but if I were them I would tell it all and screw what the aruba police say – they aren’t helping to begin with anyways – I truly think it is time to stop screwing around and get our president involved – yes many people go missing every day but few have had been surrounded with such messy and corrupt police work as this and if it wasn’t for the us media nobody would knwo the half of what is goin on here – and as I said, I have nothing against aubas people or anyone but I can tell you with certainty I would never ever travel there now because I would hate tot hink something might happen to me and I owulod ever nweed the help of such a screwed up and corrupt government

  455. calista says:

    wow…..it seems everyone is getting really heated about this……well…..I live in America and I have nothing against any other country but the simple fact is the aruba police and government have made a mess of this investigation and covered things up and that is plain to anyone. They let the admitted last people to be seen with her go without even checking their homes, clothing, or cars for evidence and chased after two innocent people then two weeks later decided to go search and obviously came up with nothing…they are allowing people to be involved in this case who are friends of the father who is a judge or judge trainee whatever it is and has ties to the judicial system, they go on tv and say all 3 boys are already charged with murder then they let them go 2 days later, they have admitted that they know joran’s dad has said he told them “no body no case” btu they let him go free, they know the 3 boys all made up lies about where they left natalee and they let two of them go anyway, they won’t allow the fbi to help them or use any american resources available tot hem and have hindered help from the search team brought in from texas, clearly the holloway family knows more than they are saying about what happened and must be being threatened if they release the info but if I were them I would tell it all and screw what the aruba police say – they aren’t helping to begin with anyways – I truly think it is time to stop screwing around and get our president involved – yes many people go missing every day but few have had been surrounded with such messy and corrupt police work as this and if it wasn’t for the us media nobody would knwo the half of what is goin on here – and as I said, I have nothing against aubas people or anyone but I can tell you with certainty I would never ever travel there now because I would hate tot hink something might happen to me and I owulod ever nweed the help of such a screwed up and corrupt government

  456. Mike 1 says:

    Uncle Al – It was in response to Natalee’s mom saying they let criminals go, and that they could leave, and that they knew something. 200 protesters told her “respect Aruban law or go home”

  457. Alvaro says:

    ss
    sorry, didn’t mean to be rude. what’s funny is that people like bobup go around talking justice this and that, but then they show their true colors and show you that if they were in charge, they would only want justice for a precious few. people can get ignorant really fast on here.

  458. FlyingDee says:

    Ok..so let me get this straight. The american students were ruled out as suspects and nobody ever speaks of them again. While the “surinam boys” were also ruled out as suspects but yet……………………
    The arubans respect FBI’s “ruling out”, so why don’t the americans respect the arubans “ruling out”.
    Posted by: Realist | July 6, 2005 03:48 PM
    The FBI interviewed the students after they returned to the states, and handed the interviews over to the Aruban police/polis. The Aruban polis ruled them out as suspects. Maybe they should be interviewed again? Or brought back to Aruba to be interviewed by the polis?
    The Suriname boys have not been ruled out as suspects.
    I suggest you do some reading before you post, Realist. There are a lot of interesting twists & turns in this case.

  459. Mike 1 says:

    Disapointed Aruban – I’m unsure of your definition of “inept”. How about the whole Aruban Government being “outsmarted” by a 17 year old boy! And then being rude.

  460. ss says:

    no problem alvaro… it that “southern” justice bobup and Kap speak of..

  461. Disappointed Arubian says:

    The RealPackerFanGirl:
    I would like that. I think I would enjoy more intelligent converstions with you.
    Mike 1:
    Catch up. At the beginning of the week they’ve been taking the boys to the last spots they claimed to be with Natalee to pinpoint exact spots and statements to filter out any lies.
    There are new people on the case and Holland sent 3 F-16’s, which are currently passing over my head every 10 to 20 minutes, and more militants have arrived.
    And ofcourse the investigators are not going to publicate everything they know, that’s to be revealed in the courtroom. You don’t know the case on the whole, so stop speculating.

  462. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Aren’t you the least bit concerned about the way your government has handled this case?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Ofcourse I am, I’m generally pissed that they still haven’t got anything concrete. I’ve been wanting to walk in there and personally slap all the investigators and have a serious talk with the minister of justice.
    They said they released them to keep them under investigation. Maybe, maybe not. Who knows.
    What I would think, the boys maybe thought they go off easy and would be a bit more loose with what they say to their friends on the phone or the internet and may eventually slip. Just my opinion. They did tap their phones and take their PC’s for further investigation.
    ___________________________________________
    Disappointed Arubian said the above. Finally we have someone from Aruba who will come right out and say they are p____ed about the investigation and not sure if they have anything concrete or not. If anyone here really is going to attack someone from Aruba who actually sees this and is actually willing to state it and that they care and is not happy with the investigation either, there is something really wrong. Give Disappointed Arubian a break. I too started out mean in response until realizing this one is not someone pretending to be from Aruba and is not slamming us except in response to someone slamming first and even then, not viciously.

  463. vcsiii50 says:

    SVL:
    WTF does that have to do with finding Natalee?

  464. Florida Boy says:

    reality based:
    It is a bit presumptuous to claim to “speak” for everyone because you certainy do not.
    I, for one, would not attack Natalee’s family as you did, even in the passive-aggressive manner in which you chose to do so.
    Moreover, most of the ill feelings from Americans apparent on this board and in other forums are reactions to equally incendiary statements from others or to an investigation that appears to have contained numerous errors form the outset.
    As such, can the holier-than-thou attitude. A girl is missing and a family grieves. That is the story, not anyone’s pious sanctimony.

  465. FlyingDee says:

    I remember not to long ago, when I could come in here & bounce facts & theories between other users, instead of bashing each other. Shouldn’t the focus be on figuring out what happened to Natalee, instead of insulting each other?
    Please…everyone let’s try to solve this case.
    Any news on how Tropical Storm Dennis is affecting the search efforts of the F-16’s and of Texas Equusearch. Disappointed Arubian, how’s the weather down there today?
    I think if we work together & treat this as a mystery to solve, we will be a lot more productive & may even discover things on our own. What a novel idea, work together!

  466. bobup says:

    Alvaro or ss seen anything of the minute men in texas yet?

  467. Vander F says:

    I stil don’t get it why some people want to nuke an entire island because of ‘possibly’ one psychopath and a slow starting police investigation.
    Bored behind your compu-screens or what?

  468. Alvaro says:

    I think there are plenty of Arubans critical or unhappy with the way the investigations are being carried out, but its hard to be critical of your governmental institutions when your country is under an all out attack on its culture.

  469. Mike 1 says:

    Disapointed Aruban – filter any lies?? They blew their case when they let the boyz go for 2 weeks while they arrested 2 guys the boyz “pointed” out. As I said, outsmarted by teenagers. lol

  470. Disappointed Arubian says:

    The RealPackerFanGirl :
    The majority of the Arubians see it the way I do. They want this case solved and fast. They don’t understand why nothing is concrete yet. We want to know where Natalee is. I have friends her age and can’t imagine how I’d feel if one of them should go missing. WE WANT ANSWERS.
    Our economy, our future is hanging on the line here. We’d hate to see Aruba, such a great place, go down just because of a few pissed Americans and Arubians.

  471. FlyingDee says:

    Any news of Texas Equusearch efforts of the north coast of the island? I had heard they had found a container & wanted to dive for it, but that it is in dangerous waters.

  472. Mike 1 says:

    Vander f – I’ll bet if it were your daughter you wouldn’t caracterize 5 weeks of investigation as “slow starting”

  473. Alvaro says:

    bobup
    thats not a hot button issue for me, so try again. people can do whatever they want as long as they don’t break any laws.

  474. ss says:

    who let you out of your cage bobup…
    We all want to know what happened, but unfortunately we probably never will. The Aruban government will not disclose all of the information they have. They will not let the FBI or anyone else come in and take over the case, just like the US wouldn’t if an Aruban citizen was missing here. I don’t think Aruba is going anywhere and i am not certain but i don’t think tourism is even suffering, the vacation packages are cheaper because of all this so more people are taking advantage of going somewhere at 1/2 the price.

  475. Disappointed Arubian says:

    FlyingDee:
    Cloudy, it rained all day yesterday due to the tropical storm.
    Mike 1:
    Again, you’re not reading. They were released for 10 days and were invetigated upon with tapped phones and their PC’s have been taken into custody. And the police will investigate ANYTHING to ensure the facts are either false or concrete. Isn’t that how it’s supposed to be done? Invesigate any possobility?
    Alvaro:
    Thank you.

  476. Mike 1 says:

    At this point I think I have an obligation to Natalee Holloway never to spend a dime in Aruba. By the time they recover (if they do) her body, there will be no forensics – and voila – an accidential drowning. Joran left her on the beach and we guess she went for a swim.

  477. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Disappointed Arubian:
    It is nice to know you think that most of you see it the way you do. This is what I for one had started to wonder and what was really upsetting me. We never really heard that from any Arubians and that is what bothered me such much, it just did not make sense to me. It is also nice to be able to talk to someone who can help us figure out how it looks from both sides instead of just from what the media is able to feed us and we always have to read between the lines on that as well to be sure what is what.
    I am going to send Dan my email address now and ask him to send it to you when you send him yours for me or vice versa.
    Alvaro: Are you the Texas Packer fan I talked with the other day? Hello. And good post above.

  478. condorsa says:

    I wouldn’t even bother FD, someone who really trots out “Well he’s only lived here for 15 years, he’s not really one of us” is going to be able to rationalize or minimalize any negatives to themselves, why even bother asking for them. Remember, the reason nothing was done for 10 days is because people usually show up later right? I mean people wandering off and going on crack binges must be so commonplace on the island that it wasn’t worth looking into…. Seriously, you have to be delusional if you expect anyone in America to believe you have “virtually no crime” when in the very next breath you act blase’ about people going on a 10 day crack smoking spree….
    Oh and yes, i have read reports of a whole boat gone missing since NH, the Pollywog or something, I’m sure others here know what I’m talking about. Gotta love your consistency too, the beheading doesn’t count because the beheader wasn’t “Arubian” enough either… think I’m gonna shorten the term “Arubian” to just plain “Rube” cause if your island really believes this shit I got a couple of bridges to sell you…

  479. condorsa says:

    I wouldn’t even bother FD, someone who really trots out “Well he’s only lived here for 15 years, he’s not really one of us” is going to be able to rationalize or minimalize any negatives to themselves, why even bother asking for them. Remember, the reason nothing was done for 10 days is because people usually show up later right? I mean people wandering off and going on crack binges must be so commonplace on the island that it wasn’t worth looking into…. Seriously, you have to be delusional if you expect anyone in America to believe you have “virtually no crime” when in the very next breath you act blase’ about people going on a 10 day crack smoking spree….
    Oh and yes, i have read reports of a whole boat gone missing since NH, the Pollywog or something, I’m sure others here know what I’m talking about. Gotta love your consistency too, the beheading doesn’t count because the beheader wasn’t “Arubian” enough either… think I’m gonna shorten the term “Arubian” to just plain “Rube” cause if your island really believes this shit I got a couple of bridges to sell you…

  480. Mike 1 says:

    Disapointed Arban – And they searched their cars when? And they searched their houses when? how can anyone defend this? They were duped by teenagers. They arrested and held 2 innocent security guards – remember?

  481. Alvaro says:

    Dissapointed Arubian
    I hope for your island’s sake and for that of the Twitty Holloways’ that she is found and there is closure, but I would be interested to see statistics that show the likelihood of cases to be solved as each day progresses. At 30 + days they must be terrible odds.

  482. Vander F says:

    If it was my daughter I would be really upset, hearing the main suspects walked around for 10 days.
    That’s ‘slow starting’ in my eyes.
    All circumstantial evidence may be lost because of this.

  483. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Disappointed Arubian:
    It is nice to know you think that most of you see it the way you do. This is what I for one had started to wonder and what was really upsetting me. We never really heard that from any Arubians and that is what bothered me such much, it just did not make sense to me. It is also nice to be able to talk to someone who can help us figure out how it looks from both sides instead of just from what the media is able to feed us and we always have to read between the lines on that as well to be sure what is what.
    I am going to send Dan my email address now and ask him to send it to you when you send him yours for me or vice versa.
    Alvaro: Are you the Texas Packer fan I talked with the other day? Hello. And good post above.

  484. resorttownmom says:

    Packerfangirl:
    Didnt Maria Croes say that “no body” comment? She is a spokeswoman for the prosecutor who has since been replaced.
    Anyway, Nothing is fact until the case evidence is presented or Natalee is found, Dead or alive.
    And I do respect your opinion..You are very logical…I respect many peoples opinions.Opinion being the major word.
    Nothing we hear is fact, just theorie and speculation.
    Posted by: BigAl | July 6, 2005 11:06 AM
    ————————————————
    I believe that this “no body, no crime” thing was contrived and leaked out by Depak’s lawyer as retalliation for how Depak was being treated. Nobody knew what Paulus told the boys but Joran, Depak and Satish. I think Paulus did advise them generally in order to reassure them not to be afraid. As you remember Mickey John heard this story from Depak in jail. I think Depak and his lawyer crafted a new version of what happened that night just prior to Mickey John being put in the cell. His lawyer had already told him if they put anyone in your cell it’s part of the interrogation so time to pretend you don’t know that and put forth the new version. They will believe it’s totally true because you pretend you don’t know who he is. I really don’t believe any of the versions and nobody else should either. Lawyers are crafty and Depak was being practically tortured. It was a “big FU, you dutch interrogators and your dutch judge friend too.” The no body, no crime is a public relations campaign against the Van Der Sloots so that Kalpoes can be released.

  485. Alvaro says:

    Packerfan girl
    Brett Farve for president – guilty as charged

  486. Mike 1 says:

    Disapointed Aruban – They didn’t take their pcs until they rearrested them. check google news. I guess you haven’t been reading.

  487. thinkaboutit says:

    Description of “job” of one of the primary protestors against the Holloways in the recent “event” in front of the court house – John Merryweather – note he also an author and is on the board of a large resort property group.
    “The ministers plenipotentiary are authorised representatives of their national governments. They receive instructions from and are accountable to their governments. These ministers therefore do not have to resign in the event of a Dutch cabinet crisis.”
    OK – what is HE doing leading a protest against the Holloways? Is it in his official capacity?
    This whole affair reeks of upper class dishonesty. They have a lot to lose if all sordid details come out.

  488. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Mike 1:
    You’re being harsh, unrealistic and downright dumb. I’m sorry, I tried to be nice to you.
    Condorsa:
    You’re just speculating and I’m not going to bother to point out the reasons why you’re statements are wrong.
    I’m out for today.
    The RealPackerFanGirl: just click on my screenname, I actually posted my real e-mail address.

  489. Alvaro says:

    typo – Farvre

  490. Aruba is for losers says:

    Who cares what anyone from Aruba thinks where is Natalie? The cops on aruba couldnt catch a cold they suck bottom line, lets invade the place.

  491. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Mike 1:
    They took their PC’s for investigation. You’re not gonna find “Im gonna kidnap an american girl and kill her” you’re more likely to find if they leaked about what they know about Natalee AFTER the incident.
    You’re not reading.

  492. Edra says:

    Mike 1,
    FINALLY…someone who sees the sense of the scenario speculated by most of our friends…a drunk girl, drowning in the night and swept out to sea in the darkness…that would explain the lack of any forensic evidence, no body, and/or confused, scared boys who could not come up with a plausible story of what they did not know about. As our Rona Coster wrote weeks ago, if the boys knew anything, they would have told it, by now, if only to get on with being teenaged boys on summer holiday before going away from this island for college.
    I was a teenager waiting to go away to the United States for college my 18th summer in Aruba, and I know my friends and I did many silly, stupid antics…like catching sharks at Boca Mahos and jumping off the rocks at Colorado Point to spearfish…the girls happily hanging on the netting of the huge Caterpillar tire inner tube with the dead fish hanging by stringers…we were baracuda bait but did not even think of the danger…
    We were immortal teenagers…just like Natalee and Joran…

  493. Alvaro says:

    Slightly off topic: I hope this same fervor to bring Natalee home is applied to legislating true tracking of sick bastards like the one in the Groene case. A case like the Holloway case is rare, but one like the Groene case happens all the time.

  494. Mike 1 says:

    Disapointed Aruban YES You’re right, what they said after the incident. Like the first 10 days or so????? Oh yeah, let’s investigate the pcs. June 15th. YOU’RE not reading

  495. GrannyToad says:

    I’ve seen the term used here today “militants” and “Dutch militants” [arriving in Aruba to some unknown purpose] and wonder if the use of militants is the same as US usage.
    1 : engaged in warfare or combat : FIGHTING
    2 : aggressively active (as in a cause)

  496. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Alvaro: Right on! I have a T-shirt that saves Favre for President!!!!!!
    Disppointed Arubian: I sent my email to Dan, don’t know how long it might take him to go through all his mail and get it to you but hopefully he will.
    As for the no body, no crime remark, I am pretty sure Caren Janssen (spelling), the prosecutor, verified PVS making this remark on a phone call when asked this directly by a reporter on TV. Anyone else recall that? And I don’t mean Maria Croes, I mean the prosecutor herself.

  497. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Alvaro: Right on! I have a T-shirt that saves Favre for President!!!!!!
    Disppointed Arubian: I sent my email to Dan, don’t know how long it might take him to go through all his mail and get it to you but hopefully he will.
    As for the no body, no crime remark, I am pretty sure Caren Janssen (spelling), the prosecutor, verified PVS making this remark on a phone call when asked this directly by a reporter on TV. Anyone else recall that? And I don’t mean Maria Croes, I mean the prosecutor herself.

  498. condorsa says:

    What am I speculating about? The statement “there is virtually no crime here” comes from your government and your people, so that is not speculation. The statement “people wander off on crack binges all the time and show up later on” is also made by your governement, where is the speculation? I have taken the time to answer questions posed by you, especially in regards to how this same type of story has precedent for being big, so why don’t you return the favor and tell me which of those statements is actually correct.
    How many crackhouses would you estimate there are on aruba? 5? 10? Your island is what 17 miles in area? Is there only one crackhouse on the whole island? Probably not or they would have just trotted over there and picked her up right? So there are probably more than the authorities can keep up with, or they would have rifled through them in a day or so and would be emphatically statiing that she did or didn’t go there. So how many would that be? 10? 20? Hell even if it’s only 10 crackhouses on the whole island, that’s one every 1.7 miles on average…. hardly what I’d call “virtually crime-free”…

  499. FlyingDee says:

    condorsa
    Yeah, I did find the following comment a little naive, rediculous, and absurd:
    “Joran might have been living here for 15 years, but that does not mean he’s been ‘Arubianized’.”
    …as well as the belief that the Aruban government is doing everything they can to solve this case…yeah right!
    I do think the one who made those comments means well and has shown some class. The naivete just gets me sometimes…my gosh, what are they thinking?!?
    Oh well…I’m going to try to stick to the facts & probable theory for now. But I have to say, that comment about Joran not being Aruban stings of the same type of naivete that many label certain portions of America with (no names being mentioned).
    Time for everyone to open their eyes.

  500. Alvaro says:

    I hear what you’re saying Edra, but aren’t you glossing over the fact that lies send up red flags to investigators? Is what you say possible? Absolutely. Is it possible Joran was involved in her death or disappearance? Absolutely.
    I had a youth also(sad its gone), and I do remember that “immortal” feeling. I do also remember times my friends and I got caught in things we weren’t supposed to be doing. Lying for a friend was always an option(sometimes one taken) but I really feal in situation when the stakes are this high, most people would come clean in order to immediately distance themselves from a murder or abduction. Just my opinion.

  501. SvL says:

    vcsiii50:
    WTF has this to do with finding Natalee?
    Well, you just have to face it. She will not be found alive. But you can comfort yourself by knowing that she probably wasn’t conscious of her dead.

  502. Edra says:

    Uncle Al,
    You are the wisest of the thinkers currently positing theories and facts, here.
    They need your cool approach in your country to work out how to protect children, there, from the plethora of sexual predators attacking your children.
    They need to be able to put them away forever, there…not let the most vulnerable among us, the chilren, be bait for their sexual fantasies.
    Having a small grandchild living in California scares me…I want her here, in Aruba, where she will be safer from the crimes against children in California and other states.
    Poor Polly Klaas (another Dutch name) and Elizabeth Smart and Jon Benet Ramsey and Adam Walsh…poster children for the hundreds of others who are victimized by your sexual predators who are let out of your prisons to prey, again.
    I feel so badly for those parents and their families…and Chandra Levy, too.

  503. calista says:

    Oh for goodness sakes……everyone who says it is believable natalee was left alone on that beach by joran and decidiec to gof or a swim has gone way off the deep end……first if natalee was even that drunk and was not given something to make her that way……I doubt she would say hey let’s go swim all alone in the pitch black darkness at 2 am on a deserted beach…..right……..and if it is so “believable” that is what happened…..why is it theose 3 boys made up a lie and a detailed lie at that abotu what happened to her so fast? if all they did was leave her on the beach then they would have said from the top all we did was leave her on a beach….I am all for innocent until provenm guilty and weighing different sides of things but come on now let’s get a clue here

  504. FlyingDee says:

    Well, you just have to face it. She will not be found alive. But you can comfort yourself by knowing that she probably wasn’t conscious of her dead.
    Posted by: SvL | July 6, 2005 05:05 PM
    How do you know?

  505. Alvaro says:

    Wow Edra,
    You’ve managed to sound as condescending towards America as the American posters sound about Aruba and the Dutch. Who said we can’t all learn from each other?

  506. SvL says:

    I don’t, but the changes are odd, don’t you think? If she was kidnapped for ransom there would have been a message from the kidnappers by now. I don’t think she was sold to the sex-industry. She would be too notable, at least now due to the media.

  507. Richard White says:

    WHY IS HE STILL AN EMPLOYEE OF YOUR GOVERNMENT? Why did it take 30+ days to get the marines out on the search? Why did they raid the two black men’s houses and confiscated their belongings and when it came to the judges son the government said we cannot go in like cowboys?

  508. FlyingDee says:

    calista
    How true you are! That just doesn’t make sense. There are fishermen (not just the ones who recently said they were on the beach that night & did not see anyone). But there are fishermen in boats too, as well as many other dive boats, etc. I’m sure her body would’ve been spotted, if not washed up.
    I have heard that local fishermen say you can’t even set foot in the water without showing up on radar. Obviously that’s an exaggeration, but the fact is that those waters are “scoped” pretty heavily by law enforcement, due to the heavy boat traffic between the mainland (Venezuela & Columbia). It’s fairly certain that her body would have been spotted by now if it was an accidental drowning, not for certain, but more than likely. I’m not ruling it out, just pointing out the obvious that many people don’t realize: it’s very hard for a body to just “disappear” off the western coast due to drowning. However, it is possible. Anything’s possible.

  509. Edra says:

    This was not the first time Natalee had been to Aruba and she was a well-traveled child from a family who have visited Aruba more than once…she knew that beach in the daytime…and it is even more exciting to swim, there, at Arashi, at night…
    I did it, often, and skinny dipped, there, too…it was part of being a teenager who thought we were adults…it is so easy to live dangerously…than not know what to do with the consequences we never expected to explode around us…

  510. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Uncle Al, didn’t figure the email address was correct, that is why I suggested getting it through Dan.
    Alvaro,
    Backing up a bit but you are sure right on that Groene thing. That MN judge is responsible for four murders and the molestation and terror of the little girl for not running an FBI check on a CHILD MOLESTOR of all things. And the Edra above is right about our country and sexual predators, they should be put away for LIFE. Pretty sad when stealing a car sometimes results in more time than a crime against a child.

  511. FlyingDee says:

    I don’t, but the changes are odd, don’t you think? If she was kidnapped for ransom there would have been a message from the kidnappers by now. I don’t think she was sold to the sex-industry. She would be too notable, at least now due to the media.
    Posted by: SvL | July 6, 2005 05:16 PM
    Can you say, Amy Bradley? She disappeared in 1998, as the cruise ship she was on was docking at Caracao. Since then, there was a reported sighting of her in a brothel by a U.S. military man (who says he didn’t even know who she was until much later).
    Also, I doubt kidnappers would expect the media attention, if that is what happened. If she was not kidnapped for ransom, but for the supposed “wild” theory of sex slave (not really that wild, considering the known fact that human traficking does exist in Venezuela, which is less than 20 mi. away). Might kidnappers be a little scared of trying to collect a ransom at this point, and rather lay low?
    Just a bunch of what ifs…but not impossible…

  512. inferno says:

    Bamamom is SO confirming the prejudice that a lot of Americans r totally braindead. Fortunately I know they’re not all that stupid. Anyways, knowing the US legal system a bit, u better refrain from commenting on the one of anther country. Bye bye 4 now

  513. Edra says:

    Uncle Al,
    Hmmm…mysterious person of intellectual prowess, there.
    Intriguing…
    Belgie?
    I will enjoy reading further postings from you.
    Edra van Buuren de Lange
    Aruba

  514. The RealPackerFanGirl says:

    Couple of questions, does anyone know the answers?
    First, I remember that JVS’ mother is a teacher, does anyone know the subject she teachers, the grade, etc.?
    Second, I have not heard this talked about since the beginning but at the outset we heard the Kalpoes’ father (wasn’t it?) was a prominent businessman in Aruba? Did we ever find out who he was or what his business was? It has never been mentioned since that I know of and yet we have seen their mother and we have seen both of JVS’ parents.
    Can anyone help out with these questions/answers?

  515. Barbara says:

    The Kalpoe brothers’ mother does not seem to be married to the boys’ father as she has a different last name. Also, about sexual predators in the U.S., I just heard there are 33,000 in California who are lost as far as the law is concerned. These 33,000 are roaming free among the citizens, probably looking for children. These 33,000 have not reported as required.

  516. FlyingDee says:

    P.S.: There is a lot of boat traffic between Aruba and the mainland at night…and many boats run without lights on.
    Also, I can dig up pics of Joran partying in Venezuela…I’ve seen them online…doesn’t mean anything, since he’s a known partier/gambler and Venezuela is so close. Heck, I’m sure I’d go visit Venezuela if I lived on Aruba for 15 years.
    However, nothing should be ruled out. Assumptions can be very restrictive when it comes to solving mysteries. And this IS a mystery of a disappearance. It’s just surprising that the thought of Natalee being ferried off the island is looked at as such a wild idea. It really wouldn’t have been that difficult.
    And wouldn’t people that knew things be scared to tell the truth if it would implicate some other very powerful people. I think they would be more scared of their entire family “disappearing” than they would of going to prison.
    Is it really that unrealistic to even examine this possible angle, especially seeing as how easy it would have been to carry out?
    Also, is it really that unrealistic to assume that powerful people are involved in the gaming industry? It IS known that Joran is an avid gambler, and has been for quite some time. I have seen pics of him in the casino from last year (when he was 16). He even gambles with his daddy. In fact, daddy (PVDS) was at the casino gambling the night before NH’s disappearance, even though he had just reportedly returned from judicial training in Holland the same day! Sounds like the VDS family (at least the men) are heavily tied into the gambling habit. I’m sure they must know SOME people in the industry.
    Now, I’m not implying that just because Joran gambles that he knows powerful people, but it can’t be ruled out that he does. It is far from impossible. In fact, the night after NH’s disappearance, he is known to have been gambling at the Wyndham (not sure on the spelling) into the wee hours of the morning, on the night before important exams at school. I am not convinced that Joran & daddy don’t have connections with powerful people.
    I’m just shocked that so many people simply rule out the possibility of connections between the VDS guys, the gambling industry, and illegal activity. Shouldn’t all possible angles be looked at in solving a case like this? Even the mainstream American media kinda dismisses it as a possibility. At least take a look at the possibility…sheesh…it IS a possibility. And looking at it could expose other possibilities; that’s how most crimes are solved (looking at all the possibilities; not going on pre-biased opinions & theories).
    – lot’s of boat traffic at night (without lights)
    – Joran known to party & gamble on Aruba
    – Joran known to party in Venezuela
    – nobody speaking on the truth as to what happened, suggests fear in exposing the truth
    – Joran & daddy well known in the casinos
    One other note: it was reported in the very beginning (before NH was all over the press) that a “local” outside C&C’s told some of the MBHS kids that the guy that Natalee got in the car with is a known drug dealer. Also, everyone at the scene thought she got into a taxi. I wonder if NH also thought she was sharing a taxi with a cute guy she had met. Hmmmmm…makes me wonder…

  517. Barbara says:

    Shasta Groene’s father is on t.v. making a statement at this time. Her children were found by employees at Denney’s rather than law enforcemtnt. I heard also there are 33,000 sexual offenders in California who are not registered and are lost to law enforcement.

  518. wreck says:

    I believe Anita is an Art teacher – not sure of the grade. The Kalpoe’s father is an Automobile exporter/importer (kind of an iffy occupation — if you ask me.)

  519. FlyingDee says:

    MSNBC is right now reporting that the attorney is appealing the decision to let the brothers go…
    …also the attorney for JVDS is appealing the decision to hold him for an additional 60 days…
    We all knew both decisions would probably be appealed; apparently, it’s official right now.

  520. Edra says:

    Mrs. Anita van der Sloot is an Art teacher who also teaches religion, including Buddhism, at the Aruba International School of Aruba…formerly the Lago Community Schools of the American oil company community of Lago Oil and Transport Co., Ltd…the Esso owned refinery town for their expatriate employee families, primarily American, but also Dutch and British families.
    That school is an American school and is the American school where Joran was an honors student and star athlete, what we call a “sporter” in tennis, swimming and other athletics.
    He had the problem of having his mother at school every day…hard to be a liberated teenager with Mom down the hall…but, he was a well rounded student with an excellent American education and completed AP or Advanced Placement courses to opt out of some basic college courses…as well as an academic scholarship to an American college…he makes an easy intellectual partner for a girl like Natalee who also earned an academic scholarship.
    Disappointed in Aruba makes a very good point…Joran was not an Arubian…he is a foreigner, there…a Hollander with an American education…not an Arubian with the much more conservative values of the Arubian culture. Holland is a very radical place compared to the currently conservative American viewpoint.
    That is not a prejudicial statement by either me or Disappointed…there are two different societies…viewpoints, cultures, really. The natively born families of conservative and devoutly Catholic Arubians and the still colonial, but extremely liberal Dutch families.
    My father was of the colonial attitude…and believed in all of the liberal Dutch beliefs…euthanasia, abortion, taxpaying prostitution medically supervised, free needles for addicts, legal marriage for gay and lesbian couples…all of the liberties taken for granted by the Dutch…
    Not so, my much more conservative mother who was island born to an old island family…
    It is culture, I think, not class, not race…just a different culture.
    There is a difference…but not animosity…just different view points…
    Edra van Buuren de Lange
    Aruba

  521. AnnaMaria says:

    RealPackerFanGirl:
    Anita VdS teaches art, I believe elementary level or middle school, but am not sure. No idea on the Kalpoe father. Please, folks, we’re all upset here. I see the regular Arubans’ side who are scared for their country (not the jerks who protested) and boy, do I see Beth Twitty’s side of things. Crystal clear. You’d probably have to sedate me to stop me from killing whomever harmed my daughter; and believe it or not, I’m neither ‘southern’ nor a violent person. Just a mother, and as one I know that most of us would move heaven and earth for our children when push came to shove.
    Peace everyone, please. None of this is helping.

  522. FlyingDee says:

    Disappointed in Aruba makes a very good point…Joran was not an Arubian…he is a foreigner, there…a Hollander with an American education…not an Arubian with the much more conservative values of the Arubian culture.
    Posted by: Edra | July 6, 2005 06:08 PM
    Don’t even go there…we already covered that topic. Joran has lived on Aruba since he was 2 years old, for over 15 years. So, how long must you live on Aruba to gain citizenship?

  523. FlyingDee says:

    Disappointed Arubian said:
    Arubians have done alot in hopes of seeing positive results and all we’re getting is bad propaganda. No one even bothers to note that the boys involved aren’t even Arubians.
    I understand your frustration with the bad PR, Disappointed Arubian. But you have to admit that the local authorities kinda brought it on themselves; in the very beginning, they didn’t even detain & collect evidence from the prime suspects for 10 days! This isn’t a knock on Arubans, believe me. And I do understand that you’re upset about calous remarks that do so. But keep in mind that it is not a media fabrication that 10 days went by without proper evidence being collected, and FBI partnership on the case was turned down. That’s absolutely unacceptable in solving a crime, no matter what country you’re from.
    The last I checked, Joran has been living on Aruba for 15 of his 17 years. If you don’t classify him as an Aruban then that’s just rediculous. Immigrants to the U.S. would be classified as U.S. citizens after 15 years. C’mon, get real!
    Posted by: FlyingDee | July 6, 2005 02:37 PM

  524. FlyingDee says:

    Disappointed in Aruba makes a very good point…Joran was not an Arubian…he is a foreigner, there…a Hollander with an American education…not an Arubian with the much more conservative values of the Arubian culture.
    Posted by: Edra | July 6, 2005 06:08 PM
    I think Joran’s anticipated American education at any one of the following colleges & universities has been flushed down the toilet.
    St. Leo’s University
    Florida Atlantic University
    University of Central Florida
    Drew University
    Flagler College

  525. Edra says:

    Flying Dee,
    We are not discussing citizenship…we are ALL Dutch citizens…whether born in Rotterdam, Zuid Holland, or Oduber Hospital, Aruba…both are full Dutch citizens.
    It is the cultural attitudes which are different…and my parents represent both…the very liberal and the conservative.
    Please do not give me direction as to what topics you will allow me to discuss here.
    You wrote to me: Don’t even go there…we already covered that topic.
    This is my island…I will defend it to the end of my days…there is no place on earth that I could ever love as much as I love this little island in the wind…but, more, even than the island in the wind…I love my people, my Arubian companions…
    My Dutch father always said the Arubians are the salt of the earth…my father was right.

  526. FlyingDee says:

    Edra, I’m not the one who brought up whether or not Joran is an Aruban. He’s lived there since he was 2. Does that not make him an Aruban? Maybe it doesn’t.
    Also, it’s not your island that is under attack, it’s your corrupt political system, which has been shown to be influenced by gambling and mafia, as well as Columbian cartel. In fact, I wish your island peace and freedom from the corrupt powers that have it in their grips.
    It’s my belief that most Arubans are very kind hearted and very good people.
    No need to get defensive about your island.

  527. FlyingDee says:

    Many countries have multiple cultures involved. I lived in Alaska for 8 years, and experienced the mix of cultures there. I have many friends who are native to the land, many that were born there but have ancestral roots in other parts of the world, and many that immigrated there. All of them are Alaskan.
    Trying to distance yourself from Joran is only understandable if you are feeling the need to defend your island people. I’m sorry you feel that way, since it is not the majority of your island people that are behind this bizarre case.
    I wish you and your island peace and resolution, all of your people, no matter what their culture. I do not believe that segregation is the answer to this problem; it would only be a step backwards.
    I also do not believe attacking Arubans is the answer. Let’s attack the corrupt politicians that control the island!

  528. Edra says:

    Flying Dee,
    There is no need for me to distance myself from Joran…
    Contrarily, I support Joran. We have not yet been given access to any of the investigative results…they are private because he is considered innocent until found guilty by the judge…not by the parents nor by the press media.
    However, my remarks refer to the sense expressed by Disappointed that there are Arubians and there are those who did not come from Arubian families…
    When your entire country is so small…and we are very very small…although bigger than Chappaquiddick…
    Nevermind…memories of Mary Jo Kopechne remind me of this case…and look what Edward Kennedy was able to become…

  529. FlyingDee says:

    Edra
    I’m sorry I offended you. I’m more interested in solving this case than anything. Also, the comment I made to, “Don’t even go there”, was a figure of speech, since we already discussed that topic. You obviously are more than welcome to discuss any topic you want. I just thought it was like “beating a dead horse” (another figure of speech).
    This is actually very interesting, the cultural differences, not just in Aruba, but between Aruba and the U.S., since it has led to quite a few miscommunications already. And although I am very unsupportive of Joran (he’s obviously hiding something, as well as the Kalpoe brothers, and Steve Croes), I also feel it has been very wrong the way the U.S. media has misinterpreted many of the statements from the Dutch/Aruban legal authorities.
    But I’m glad we got in this conversation, because you have actually educated me a little bit on the cultural differences on the island itself. So, I’m glad you “did go there.”
    Even though it’s very much different, I can slighty relate due to my many conversations on the culture of Alaska. Even though they are U.S. citizens, many of them consider themselves more Alaskan than U.S. (not too long ago that statehood was initiated there).
    Please excuse if I have come off abrupt, but I am appalled at the way the “system” has failed in the investigation on Aruba.
    Also, excuse my language as far as the technicalities of “citizen” or “Aruban”. I admit my naivete, but also think that someone that lived there since they were 2 years old should be considered more or less Aruban (even if not by blood) simply because of the influence that one who’s entire life has been lived on the island would have on the culture and vice versa.
    It just makes the web being weaved in this case even more intriguing. I sure hope it is solved soon, but do fear “cover-up” and involvement with the powers that control the island.

  530. gab says:

    I question why the Arubans are not upset with the person(s) who were last seen with Natalee and the question as to where is Natalee?
    You have Arubans who are/have been detained, have not been truthful with your authorities, pointed fingers at 2 innocent black security guards causing the world to wait and watch and wonder what the outcome will be, rumors flying that no one will verify or deny.
    What exactly did the US media do wrong- the families of the detained have been interviewed sharing thier views, the polis have been interviewed, you have allowed cameras, videos, allowed the media from all over the world to come and report the truth, the facts, the emotions of many and all, local attorneys and news editors have voiced thier ideas- so what exactly are you upset about?
    Is it so bad that the world only wants to know where Natalee is and since she was last seen in Aruba with 3 local citizens then yes, Aruba is where the news will be reported from.

  531. unsurelok says:

    Why would Natalee be on the FBI missing person’s list if they knew she was dead?

  532. FlyingDee says:

    Why would Natalee be on the FBI missing person’s list if they knew she was dead?
    Posted by: unsurelok | July 6, 2005 07:38 PM
    She’s not on the FBI missing person’s list!
    http://www.fbi.gov/mostwant/kidnap/kidmiss.htm

  533. GrannyToad says:

    Unbelievably, Caribseek Aruba wrote of the FBI & Mr Twitty, excerpts:
    “For what the suspects in the USA are concerned – we cannot qualify them otherwise – we think the FBI has work to do to find out if they really wish to cooperate to bring this case to an end. By the way, on the FBI website Natalee Holloway does not appear as a missing person.”
    Of course, FBI’s not been allowed active participation, I guess they’re mainly on Aruba to keep an eye on the money laundering drug trade and mafia types. Missing, and “DISAPPEARED”, are not the same thing to America. Not listing as missing suggests the FBI has a good idea which. Is that threatening, Aruba?
    Suspects, eh. In the USA.
    “mr. Twitty, threatened to disclose damaging information if one or more of the suspects is released. He did not wish to say anything else but we can see here that this person has started to threaten the Aruba authorities and question the country’s judicial system. This is not acceptable.”
    Not acceptable. Did you learn that phrase *from* Mr Twitty, hmm?
    Suspects, eh. So Twitty gets hauled in for questioning. Suspected of learning too much and “threatening” to go public. Questioning why the 3 young men were released on lies, instead “cowboying up” 2 black [they must be Dutch because they're Aruban?] security guards right away and jailing them, while letting the last men seen with Natalee have 10 free days to get their stories straight, get legal advice, clean up after themselves, badmouth the apparent victim. [we don't know what else - yet] This is “threatening”. No doubt.
    Thanks to Aruba’s legal system and global [non-Aruban] media attention we all have very good questions that should be asked. And answered.
    That crass unsubtle form of thug-threat against the victim’s parents and FBI presence by that “news” site makes my teeth itch.

  534. grlfmbama says:

    blame the victim, the victims family, blame her friends, blame everyone except the persons responsible. protest all you want, her momma still aint gonna budge! oh and what good does it do to speak 3 languages if you still cannot speak the truth?

  535. GrannyToad says:

    I’d asked earlier the meaning to Arubans of the word “militant” as I saw it used today 2-3 times by, apparently, Arubans.
    Are they armed paramilitaries gathering in or coming to Aruba?
    Is that a euphemism for violent gangs, thugs? It was noted by some that the Kalpoe men were flashing gang signals, I hadn’t spotted that, myself.
    If the word militant is used as understood in English, is the implication a public service venture such as to help search for Natalee, or meant as some threat?
    If a threat, to whom? The Holloway Twittys? Media persons whose transmissions and interviews are considered “unacceptable” by some?
    I’d like an explantion of the word’s use in context.

  536. ptk says:

    From the beginning, I gave like many Americans Aruba the benefit of the doubt. The recent backlash against Americans and the American media only bothered me slightly. The attacks on Natalee Holloway’s family are a turning point for me. I will now never go to Aruba or let my family members go there. F@ck them! The U.S. has its own paradises. I call on all Americans to go somewhere that benefits the American economy…. Hawaii, Florida, Puerto Rico, Guam, American Samoa, U.S. Virgin Islands, etc. Aruba can die for all we care!

  537. Karin says:

    You said it so well CALISTA. This has really grabbed my attention because of how obvious it is that the police are corrupt. I have NO background in investigations and even I would be intelligent enough not to let these three guys go free so quickly- AND- not search and collect evidence in those first days and hours. It breaks my heart to feel that those four- I include the slimy greaseball of a father- are going to get away with it. My family and I canceled our trip to Aruba planned for September, not because of the people of Aruba, but because if God forbid this happened to our children, we don’t trust or respect the police and justice system of Aruba, not after what they have done this past month. They should be shamed and imprisoned for their botchery, or at the very least, be fired.

  538. Karin says:

    You said it so well CALISTA. This has really grabbed my attention because of how obvious it is that the police are corrupt. I have NO background in investigations and even I would be intelligent enough not to let these three guys go free so quickly- AND- not search and collect evidence in those first days and hours. It breaks my heart to feel that those four- I include the slimy greaseball of a father- are going to get away with it. My family and I canceled our trip to Aruba planned for September, not because of the people of Aruba, but because if God forbid this happened to our children, we don’t trust or respect the police and justice system of Aruba, not after what they have done this past month. They should be shamed and imprisoned for their botchery, or at the very least, be fired.

  539. To Hell With Aruba says:

    I agree completely ptk – I began this thing with the understanding that Aruba may not be as experienced in an investigation such as this – after reading these boards, watching Aruba cover up a crime, listening to the lies and excuses made for the boys, reading the hatred from Arubans and Dutchees that say they don’t want Americans there and now the HORRIFIC demands for an apology and threat to sue the Holloway family after all they have endured from these unethical people.
    I agree – F@CK EM ALL! They will never see one penny of my money. Good luck with that median income of $22000 per year Aruba!
    Out with the trash!!!

  540. GrannyToad says:

    “Granny it is not so hard to grasp the meaning of militant in the context of a non-English speaker. Think vet and ventanarian.”
    Posted by: Uncle Al | July 6, 2005 10:01 PM
    Now you’ve really got me lost, drawing a total blank.

  541. Richard White says:

    My response to:
    bettmarie@hotmail.com
    Subject : RE: a message from a ARUBIAN GIRL
    Your miss-informed message deserves a reply as a Veteran of the American Military who fought for our freedom so that our tourist $ can be wasted in your drug infested country, here it goes;
    UN statistics state that Aruba is the transit point for US- and Europe-bound narcotics with some accompanying money-laundering activity. I have heard many stories from the “Message Boards” about people being approached to buy drugs in Aruba. Carlos & Charlie’s being one of the places. Also, by the Marina (across from the Renaissance Hotel). Someone said whey they were at the Wyndham Hotel last week and they were approached outside to buy drugs.
    Why are under age people like the 17-year-old son of a top justice official on the island allowed to go to Casinos and Drink in bars like Carlos and Charlie’s (is that not an illegal age?), and prying on young girls and getting them drunk and giving them GHB so that they can have sex with them and your adult bartenders who keep sliding them the alcohol, when they should be shutting them off at the bar for the almighty American tourist $.
    As you know young kids have not learned their limits yet and the adults should be watching out for them and say the heck with the extra money selling them a few more beers (Aruba or anywhere).
    Why the first story told “these 3 men with Natalee” and dropped her off at the Holiday Inn? If you did nothing why lie.
    You also said “You are saying in your email that our goverment has not done a good job! Well Mr., the FBI is here since the first day. We brought investigators from Nederlands (the best ones)” Lets get the facts straight your government will not let our FBI ask questions or participate in the case and have become flunkies for your incompetent Police.
    “our goverment let the texas ressque come in to help searching”,
    Yes three weeks later when all of the evidence like the scent for the dogs was lost and the three had ten days to clean up their trail of the crime and change their stories several times.
    “our goverment gave permission for 3 F-16 planes to fly with special cameras to search”; I believe they are your planes and six weeks to late our government had requested to let our military participate in week two and we where rejected.
    “they gave all government employee’s a half day off to search for her;”
    Yes they did, and looked in the wrong places based on the now admitted false locations by the three PUNKS.
    “they asked permission to Nederlands so the dutch marines could help searching.
    I believe they sat on their ass for five weeks in their barracks while the local politicians played games because they local government claimed they did not have the authority to call them please check your facts.
    “They gave permission for about 60 reporter “work” here and following the case”.
    The reporters did not need permission they could come on a 90 free visa.
    So, Mr.White do you think if something like this would happend to me in your country your goverment would help with all of these?
    Yes and more Yes.
    “ HAVE A HEART!!! As a matter fact you now how many criminals are walking around in the States by means of paying bail??? Is this the fault of the Bush goverment??? We don’t have this “bailing system”. Our system is “innocent untill proven guilty”. The same as Michael Jackson case the same as O.J. Simpson. Mr., do you really think that Michael and O.J. Simpson are innocent??????”
    They were charged and the charges were made public as all of the evidence NOT LIKE YOUR SYSTEM BEHIND CLOSED DOORS. Why did your chief of investigation not get his contract renewed?
    “These 3 guys are saying that they are innocent. No body, no blood, nothing has been found,”
    They had Ten days to clean the evidence
    “we dont need you here. I am very glad that you have cancelled your vacation. Bye”
    I and many more Americans will not go there and then you can get back to the Stone Age and a banana republic.
    Why did the Police raid the two black men’s houses and confiscated their belongings and when it came to the judges son, your government said we cannot go in like cowboys? WHY the fathers STILL AN EMPLOYEE OF YOUR GOVERNMENT after helping to lie to the investigators in the initial story? Why did he say no body no case? Why did he tell his son not to talk to Natalee’s parents? He should have helped!
    I just learned that as the results of Paul van der Sloot training in Holland for a year he did not get the required recommendations to become a Judge and was not sufficiently educated to become a Judge, and that he was notified by the President of the Common Court of the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba that he cannot function as a judge and has to look for another function it would be a great time to fire him from the Dutch civil service. Maybe during his honesty testing in the Netherlands he sweated like he did when questioned by Natalee’s mother. Why were his son and he hiding and not searching for Natalee being his son was the last to see her?
    “dont reply to my messege.”
    The truth hurts yes it does that is why you said that. Don’t tell me that the “authorities” of Aruba do not know about the drug action in Aruba. Who is getting “PAID OFF”? Why is there armed security in front of all the hotels and on the beach in front of every hotel? Whatever happened to Natalee is done. My prayers are with her and her family. Aruba “The Happy Island” is not a happy place anymore. Oh what happened to this person in Aruba?
    We know that nothing but liars are covering up for them like the DJ who wasted every bodies time claiming he saw them.
    Date of Death Place of Death Cause of Death
    July 6, 2003 SEROE COLORADO, ARUBA Murder
    Give me five minutes with your punks and I will get the truth.

  542. pearl says:

    To hell with you,
    We from Aruba are tired from this, our goverment gave the FBI permission to investigate, Texasressque, F-16, any kind of donation what the hell more they wont. Our system is not corrupt as from states, we can’t bail criminals to get out jail. So please back off and for mrs Twitty please get out of our Island when we find you child we will send back to you!!!!

  543. pearl says:

    Mr. White do you think you are smart. We have 100.00 people living on the island. I think in the United States you have more than 100.00 in each states that is criminal you have a lot of money laundry a lot drugs addicts, if i see channel 26 here all the ACTRESSES are in rehab!! sO WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT CORRUPTION!!!! You guys have a progam names UNSOLVES MISTERY do you see it. So come on i think you have a lot work to do in your country please resolve it. And please dont be so smart.

  544. GrannyToad says:

    To hell with you,
    We from Aruba are tired from this, our goverment gave the FBI permission to investigate, Texasressque, F-16, any kind of donation what the hell more they wont. Our system is not corrupt as from states, we can’t bail criminals to get out jail. So please back off and for mrs Twitty please get out of our Island when we find you child we will send back to you!!!!
    Posted by: pearl | July 6, 2005 10:56 PM
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Yeah. FBI can investigate all on its own with NO info from your police or direction. Do you think they are tail-chasing idiots? They didn’t fall for it.
    Same for the Texas volunteers. At least they had plans of their own. They want to find Natalee.
    Our system is not corrupt as from Aruba. Suspects can only be held a short time unless CHARGED, else they must be freed. Then they can be bailed out until court appearance — in our system we’re innocent until proved guilty by a judge, or jury of our peers.
    We are neither stupid nor corrupt to allow 10 days before a search warrant is pursued on a suspect’s place, belongings, &c while allowing a spoiled young man to get legal advice, clean up his mess, concoct 14 lies, badmouth a (likely) murder victim.
    We draw a dinstinction between a suspect and a criminal – not criminal until and unless found guilty. We do not in most cases hold the accused until a future court date – that’s what the bail bond is for. Now you have had a primer.
    I find your system barbaric, treating ALL and ANY the innocent as if guilty – even victims themselves (and their families) until one man or woman judge alone makes some future decision about, perhaps one person’s guilt or total dismissal some YEARS later while dozens may be jailed or threatened with jail if they dare speak out about the case or their treatment. This is apparently the case of the 2 security guards the Kalpoe and vander Sloot liars framed – still suspects. I hear they’ve been threatened with jail if they don’t shut up.
    There may be much to learn about human rights in the wide wide world.
    Tired of this? No doubt so are Natalee’s family. Find Natalee. Demand resources actually be used to that end. Send her home with her parents.

  545. GrannyToad says:

    Vets as in Vetanarian.
    Posted by: Uncle Al | July 6, 2005 11:25 PM
    That for sure stumped me. Veterinarians treat livestock and pets – animal medics.
    Veterans, retired military.
    But you say it’s usage is active duty military personnel. aha. Dank u.

  546. GrannyToad says:

    Vets as in Vetanarian.
    Posted by: Uncle Al | July 6, 2005 11:25 PM
    That for sure stumped me. Veterinarians treat livestock and pets – animal medics.
    Veterans – veterans of military war duty, usually retired or discharged, ie inactive.
    But you say militant as used is active duty military personnel. aha. Dank u.

  547. Disappointed Arubian says:

    “I believe they are your planes and six weeks to late our government had requested to let our military participate in week two and we where rejected.”
    We don’t have F-16’s here as we cannot AFFORD it. This is not Amercica, we are not loaded with cash, we only have so much.
    “Yes they did, and looked in the wrong places based on the now admitted false locations by the three PUNKS.”
    They looked EVERYWHERE. Where were you when the island was completely swarmed with civilians looking for her? People went on the other side of the island on 4-wheelers looking.
    “Demand resources actually be used to that end. Send her home with her parents.”
    We already are. You think we don’t care about this girl? Ofcourse we do.
    About the drugs, Aruba is a trampoline for drugs. Mostly because of the high demand in the U.S.
    We have more problems with illegal immigrants than we do with drugs. In the past few years large drug busts have been very common decreasing the drug traffic on the island.
    Before Natalee, the newspaper was packed with pictures on the capture of illegal immigrants trying to swim to Aruba.
    Don’t talk if you don’t know anything. The island waters are heavily patrolled making it just a tad difficult for human trafficking(sp?).
    For those who want to know, English is our THIRD language here. Yet we speak and write it better than you president does. Don’t judge us.
    I thought this was about finding Natalee not bombing each other with pointless flames that don’t do nothing but harm.
    You don’t know what it’s like to live here. This is not America. We don’t have the technology and economy you do. We only have so much and appreciate the little things we have and now the little things we have are about to be taken away because of one missing girl and a few pissed Americans who base their conclusions and opinions on nothing but speculations and bad media coverage.

  548. GrannyToad says:

    ” … because of one missing girl and a few pissed Americans who base their conclusions and opinions on nothing but speculations and bad media coverage.”
    Posted by: Disappointed Arubian | July 7, 2005 08:19 AM
    Good media coverage, apparently. I’ve read some of your local stuff recently, thinking there might be found at least one reporter among the bunch.
    Anyway. You’ve addressed the wrong audience. Take it to the vandersloot doorway. Or wherever they’re staying.

  549. Disappointed Arubian says:

    Bad media coverage.
    They are twisting the truth to get better media coverage.
    The protest that took place in front of the courthouse was not 200 people. It was a group of around 50 protesters and the rest was audience. Arubians don’t always see much happening so when this happened, ofcourse a large crowd is going to gather around the activity.
    And they were not protesting against the Aruban law Enforment they were protesting against what was wrongfully said about Arubians. CNN clearly twisted the truth, that’s bad media coverage.

  550. jim says:

    Why does natalies mother keep saying that she has evidence of the 3 guys guilt? And if she does have this so called evidence (which I doubt) why not give it to the Aruban police and to the FBI and also to her friends at FOX, MSNBC, etc.. As unpopular as it may be I think that these 3 boys are innocent. As Americans you all should know that under our legal system there is know way that anyone could be held so long in custody with such a lack of evidence. As I said on another site, if this was not a blond, blue eyed supposedly intelligent and smart white girl this would of been forgotten by the media after the first day. And before anyone says that I am playing the race card I am a white male and to clarify, I am saying that if this were a short fat dumpy not so pretty girl not so smart girl of any ethnicity, then there would not of been all of the news coverage or political attention. I also believe that Natalees family is wealthy and quite politically connected which is also helping them to get all of this attention.
    I also believe that all of the people involved, the chaparones, other students, parents, etc. should have been questioned individually and extensively, this is something that our FBI could probably have done without the permission of the Aruban authorities.
    There is definitely something not quite right with this whole affair.

  551. jim says:

    Why does natalies mother keep saying that she has evidence of the 3 guys guilt? And if she does have this so called evidence (which I doubt) why not give it to the Aruban police and to the FBI and also to her friends at FOX, MSNBC, etc.. As unpopular as it may be I think that these 3 boys are innocent. As Americans you all should know that under our legal system there is know way that anyone could be held so long in custody with such a lack of evidence. As I said on another site, if this was not a blond, blue eyed supposedly intelligent and smart white girl this would of been forgotten by the media after the first day. And before anyone says that I am playing the race card I am a white male and to clarify, I am saying that if this were a short fat dumpy not so pretty girl not so smart girl of any ethnicity, then there would not of been all of the news coverage or political attention. I also believe that Natalees family is wealthy and quite politically connected which is also helping them to get all of this attention.
    I also believe that all of the people involved, the chaparones, other students, parents, etc. should have been questioned individually and extensively, this is something that our FBI could probably have done without the permission of the Aruban authorities.
    There is definitely something not quite right with this whole affair.

  552. Bob McKINLEY says:

    The Arubans Have the most incompetent, possibly even corrupt police and prosecutorial staff of anyplace I have ever seen.
    It is mind boggling how they can operate like keystone cops and keep a straight face.
    Then they try to cover their incompetence by making ignorant statements about the differences between the Aruban system and the US system.
    Differences do not excuse gross malfeasance.
    Get a grip

  553. Good Ole Boys says:

    They need to send a few good ole boys down to Aruba for some good old fashioned questioning of Joran, Paul & the Kalpoe Jerks, it always works. Justice can be hell if done correctly

  554. Toma says:

    Although we may not bring this case to Justice, I guarantee that Justice finds its own way