NY Times “Frosty” On Conservative Blogs

October 9, 2007

Update: Michelle Malkin, quoted in the piece, responds here.

The New York Times has decided to enter the Frost S-chip fiasco. I don’t believe I have seen one conservative blogger attack 12 yr-old Graeme, as the NY Times asserts. Unfortunately the Times leaves us with more questions than it answers. Two adults, four kids, neither adult working full-time. There may be good reason for that. But as it stands, there’s rental income and two adults, neither of whom has a full-time job which could provide access to affordable health care.

I appreciate Ms. Frost’s statement below about laying the facts out on the page. Unfortunately, while she and the NY Times were in a position to do just that, they opted to leave some very pertinent ones out. Too bad.

By putting forth the Frosts as spokespersons for S-chip, the Democrats introduced what amounts, in one sense, to a case study of the program. To take the position that either side can introduce real life scenarios into political debate without them being open to question resigns political debate to emotion. That might work for the Times as they construct their predominantly liberal narratives around stories, but it doesn’t work for people who want effective-limited government that encourages people to take responsibility for themselves, as opposed to always looking for the government to bail them out.

In recent days, Graeme and his family have been attacked by conservative bloggers and other critics of the Democrats’ plan to expand the insurance program, known as S-chip. They scrutinized the family’s income and assets — even alleged the counters in their kitchen to be granite — and declared that the Frosts did not seem needy enough for government benefits.

Again, from this below it appears the Frosts are a family of six with neither adult working full-time. There may indeed be a valid reason for that, but as it isn’t offered, what is it the Times would like us to assume?

The business that the critics said Mr. Frost owned was dissolved in 1999. The family’s home, in the modest Butchers Hill neighborhood of Baltimore, was bought for $55,000 in 1990 and is now worth about $260,000, according to public records. And, for the record, the Frosts say, their kitchen counters are concrete.

It seems the New York Times was content to report without getting to the bottom of the story. As taxpayers are funding the children’s health care, what is it about the family we aren’t supposed to be able to know as regards any income challenges? It’s possible there is more illness in the family, among the adults, but, again, we simply aren’t told.

Certainly the Frosts are not destitute. They also own a commercial property, valued at about $160,000, that provides rental income. Mr. Frost works intermittently in woodworking and as a welder, while Mrs. Frost has a part-time administrative job at a firm that provides services to publishers of medical journals. Her job does not provide health coverage.

Mr. and Mrs. Frost said they were bothered by the assertion that they lacked health coverage by their own choice.

“That is not true at all,” Mrs. Frost said. “Basically all these naysayers need to lay the facts out on the page, and say, ‘How could a family be able to do this?’ S-chip is a stopgap.”

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  1. Bill's Bites says:

    2007.10.09 Politics and National Defense Roundup

    [Updated frequently throughout the day. Please come back often.] Quick hits: The dangers of defining torture down Giving al Qaeda an interrogation-resistance manual. Qaeda Goes Dark After a U.S. Slip Leak Severed a Link to Al-Qaeda’s Secrets Report: Fe…

  2. Scrapiron says:

    I say let the IRS and welfare (possible fraud) departments investigate the Frost. The IRS could pollibly be honest, welfare and democrat will present a problem with truth.

  3. AlphaLiberal says:

    Dan Riehl, has it occurred to you that Mr Frost is trying to make a go of a business? And for that you are mocking him? Aren’t right-wingers all pro-business person? Or just successful ones?
    There are lots of small business people in this country who don’t have health insurance. DAN RIEHL, WHY DO YOU HATE SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE SO MUCH?

  4. AlphaLiberal says:

    I say let’s investigate Dan Riehl’s and Michelle Malkin’s lives. They say anyone expressing an opinion on a public issue must have their homes stalked by Malkin and others, coworkers and business partners interviewed by partisans on a jihad, neighbors interviewed for bad news falsehoods spread about them on the web, their names sullied on the radio. This would be like Dem’s ripping “Ashley” from the Bush campaign to bits.
    For what great offense? Because they engaged in civic dialogue. Malkin says conservatives are being silenced, all the while she is trying to silence the Frosts and punish them for speaking up.
    Vile hypocrites.

  5. AlphaLiberal says:

    Let’s hear from Mrs Frost:
    “We stood up in the first place because S-chip really helped our family and we wanted to help other families,” Mrs. Frost said
    For this the pack of jackals the conservative movement has devolved into will drag her family through the mud.
    Come on, Dan Riehl. You may as well just publish your home address now.

  6. Dean's World says:


    I’m with Michelle on this. Some

  7. Slice says:

    So, basically the nut is…the Democrats exploit children but their “narrative” gets blown to pieces, so they pull in those children as shields to avoid their fraud? Saddam and kite flying anyone?
    It’s been done before, with Hillary’s exploiting the munchausen by proxy parent.

  8. Observer says:

    The Frost family is an example of those already under the program. The President wants to authorize again the program with a substantial increase in funding, but not at the major increase the dems want.
    Here we have a family that is questionable at the already authorized program levels and under the new program, even lesser strapped families will come under the coverage.
    I agree that the family now probably can’t get insurance due to pre existing conditions. They should have thought of that BEFORE the injuries occurred.
    Now the program basically has them trapped.
    If they somehow gain better jobs they have to risk the chance of exceeding the income limit that will
    1) toss them out of the insurance program
    2) perhaps impact the next annual scholarship level at the private schools
    So now by helping them with the program they are now locked into a situation where they have a fixed ceiling of income they can make without substantial penalties being incurred if they break the ceiling.

  9. “Two adults, four kids, neither adult working full-time. There may be good reason for that. But as it stands, there’s rental income and two adults, neither of whom has a full-time job which could provide access to affordable health care.”
    Uh, jackass? Ever manage rental property? Sometimes it requires actual work* to keep up.* Which, you know, reasonable people would regard as, whaddyacallit … “working”.
    * Not all of us can be slumlords, Dan.

  10. sashal says:

    Dan are you the guy who averred that his brother had “died alone, probably of aids for all I know and probably in a San Francisco flop house living on the government’s dime.”
    Notice, please, that Dan was angered not that his brother was struck down by a horrific illness, but that the lucky one might have benefited from government largesse!
    Dan Riehl is what my grandmother might call a piece of shit, were she feeling charitable.

  11. “Two adults, four kids, neither adult working full-time. There may be good reason for that. But as it stands, there’s rental income and two adults, neither of whom has a full-time job which could provide access to affordable health care.”
    Uh, jackass? Ever manage rental property? Sometimes it requires actual work* to keep up.* Which, you know, reasonable people would regard as, whaddyacallit … “working”.
    * Not all of us can be slumlords, Dan.

  12. pseudotsuga says:

    “Malkin says conservatives are being silenced, all the while she is trying to silence the Frosts and punish them for speaking up. ”
    Huh? What crack are you smoking? As I’ve followed the story, I’ve never managed to see where Malkin tries to “silence” or “punish” the Frosts. She criticizes the Democrat use of them as “poster children” for SCHIP legislation, but that’s not the same thing.
    And I doubt very much that driving by somebody’s house, and interviewing somebody who works at the place that gives rental money to the Frosts, is stalking. If that’s stalking, aren’t any reporters who actually get out of their echo chamber stalkers too?

  13. John Cunningham says:

    It seems to me that at least one of the parents needs to work more than “intermittently.” I don’t know if this is a nationwide policy, but a friend of mine who is 61, and who has pre-existing conditions that make individual health insurance either unavailable or insanely expensive, has found that working part-time at Home Depot as little as 16 hours/week makes her eligible for cheap health insurance. Something the Frosts might consider.

  14. datadave says:

    Interesting…they actually let “liberals” post here?
    Republicans in generally live in a cocoon of wealth and entitlement. They are often immune to the distresses of the declining middle class. The loudest of them were helped along by wealthy family such as Rush Limbaugh who had a rich daddy buy him a radio station to practice on while his famous son was too lazy to go to college.
    I know the hard scrabble life of the Frosts myself as I am intermittant woodworker, carpenter etc. Business is never stable in the small contracting world that he lives in and imagine if they worked for HomeDepot or WalMart where pay is no more than 20K a year. Republicans want him to pay 20 percent of his current income for limited health care? While wealthy Republicans pay 1 percent or less (millionaires like Malkin for example who are well funded by the Right).
    I say give me socialized Health Care anytime: I suggest Singapore or Taiwan’s for example: Both Consevative States who saw the light: That American’s Monopolistic Regressive Health Care system (where the middle class subsidizes the upper class) will bankrupt America. Those Conservative countries spend 6 to 8 per cent of the GNP on health care and live longer more productive lives. That is because their health care systems are ‘socialized’ (with plenty of options for wealth off people to spend more if they choose). Our system is a Monopoly of Wealthy Physicians and Insurers who can charge what they please without govt. protection for the citizens who have to pay 17 per cent of GNP for an inferior product (with stats only equal to embargoed and impoverished Cuba, while all major industrialized spend less and get more)
    thanks for letting alternative voices here…perhaps the only right winger who does…try to get on Free Republic for example…one once of criticism and you’ll be banned there.

  15. Dennis D says:

    This is one Republican that is ALL FOR Self Employment. Including the risks and benefits that go with it. The Frosts want the benefits without the risks. I am sure either parent could have found a job that provided health insurance if the CHOSE to. Another factor not mentioned is declared self employment income. I am sure their income is higher than 45K. Self Employment has its benefits when it comes to reporting income.
    We know you are a liar because liberals post on these sites all the time.

  16. Rob says:

    Hey, that’s funny.
    Business is never stable in the small contracting world that he lives in and imagine if they worked for HomeDepot or WalMart where pay is no more than 20K a year.
    Well let’s see he tried to start his own business so I’m sure he could do better than a simple cashier job at Home Depot and get benefits too.
    The fact that this is a family with four kids means it’s time for the Dad to get real and look for a job that will help him provide for his family.

  17. I am sure their income is higher than 45K.
    Prove it, or STFU. Or, better still, MYOB.

  18. Right Voices says:

    UPDATED BumpedTo Add Michelle And The NYTsThe “Not So Poor” 12 Year Old Voice of SCHIP

    UPDATE 10/10/2007: Michelle has much to say, as you can see from the reaction at memeorandum, but I wanted to highlight this:
    I received an e-mail from a NYTimes reporter this afternoon:
    Writing about blog coverage of the SCHIP debate, including scrut…

  19. Amy says:

    My husband owns a small business and does not have sufficient income to provide insurance. I work full time and never ever consider a job that doesn’t have benefits. I stay in an industry that does not pay the best or have the most interesting type of work, but is a steady income and allows me to provide health insurance and a 401k. That’s what adults do — make compromises so that they can meet all responsibilities. My issue with the Frosts is that they want taxpayers to subsidize their choices.
    Also, no one has answered my question. The initial article on the Frosts indicated that Mrs. Frost did not have insurance through her employer. It did NOT say that the employer didn’t offer coverage — only that she didn’t have it. Does Mrs. Frosts employer offer health insurance or not? Has anyone asked?

  20. On the expansion of SCHIP, weak-kneed Republicans, and far lefties whod like to shut down the debate via intimidation

    This post pretty much says it all.
    It was so easily predictable that the far left would howl in outrage after conservatives started questioning the Democrats use of the 12 year-old Graeme Frost and the Frost family as the poster fa…

  21. Lala says:

    FreeRepublic is a Conservative site set up by Conservatives for Conservatives. They didn’t set up the site to engage in debates with Liberals.
    Liberals are free to set up their own sites, which they have done with DemocraticUnderground which doesn’t allow Conservatives to post their opinions.

  22. Lala says:

    $50 Billion Health Plan Is Eyed
    Spitzer To Mull Scheme Similar To the Schools
    BY JACOB GERSHMAN – Staff Reporter of the Sun
    October 10, 2007
    Among the various options for providing universal health care coverage to New Yorkers, Governor Spitzer will be considering a plan developed by a prominent Democratic state lawmaker that would eliminate premiums and income eligibility and cost the state more than $50 billion.
    Inspired by the public education system model, the program would be financed mostly by state tax revenue, with support from existing federal matching funds. If adopted, it would almost double the size of the state budget.
    While New Yorkers would see a dramatic hike in their taxes, which are already among the highest in the nation, residents would no longer be responsible for health care premium, deductible, and co-payment costs, and employers would no longer be required to pay for health coverage for their employees. Enrollment would be virtually automatic, but as with public schools, New Yorkers could opt out and pay for private insurance instead.
    The plan is the brainchild of the chairman of the Assembly’s health committee, Richard Gottfried, a veteran liberal lawmaker from Manhattan. Mr. Gottfried is expected to release a report detailing components of his idea in coming days.

  23. jj says:

    Lala, the New York plan runs along the same lines as the proposed federal program, which means the cost is severely understated. For one, how will New York be able to prevent sick people from other states, illegal aliens, and foreign nationals from using the program? If I understand it correctly, New York has already been refused matching funds from the federal government for treating illegal aliens with cancer and other extremely expensive diseases, such as tuberculosis, which is not uncommon in the illegal alien community.
    I continue to read comment after comment from people on the Left who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about. To compare the US with countries like Sweden, Singapore and Canada is ludicrous. That’s apples and oranges. A better comparison, but still not perfect, would be Britain and France, neither with a health care system that I would want to belong to. Doctors are in short supply in Britain, medical care is rationed, dental work has to wait for months, and the system is showing sign of strain. And Britain doesn’t have 30 million illegal aliens already there nor another 150 million more illegals trying to get here.
    The bottom line would be this. We would have two health care systems in the US. One would be a public system, which would mirror what we see in the public school system. Disfunctional in the large cities, better in the suburbs and smaller cities, and poor service in rural areas. The other system would still be private, with the rich getting great medical care, and the best doctors.
    I would agree to a National Health Care system on one condition, and that condition would be that everyone would have to belong to it, and that there could not be a private system for the rich. George Soros would HAVE to belong to the same system I belong to, or no go. I promise you George Soros and the rich liberals will opt for the private system. I’ll bet money on that. So it’s a no go for me.

  24. joeadams says:

    An update on my comment here yesterday. Owing to the continued politics of hate that you and redstate and michelle malkin have pursued, I have decided to put my significant financial weight behind a) an override of the veto and b) do whatever i can to ensure a republican is not elected our next president….and i have NEVER before voted for a non-republican candidate. You people have ruined the country and the republican party. Have fun with the evangelicals, and let me know how it works out for you in ’08. Unsubscribed.

  25. Lala says:

    You are assuming that people would be honest. Bribing doctors would be rampant especially once their incomes fall due to government regulation. Under socialized medicine fees would be standardized and the best doctors would make the same as the sub-standard doctors.

  26. eddie says:

    The point is not government subsidy. The government subsidizes many things that everyone will find fault with. However, would anyone say that the government should not provide for fire departments or other emergency services.
    It is simply a fallacy that medical care is something that can be efficiently provided within the “free market”. Health is not a choice that I make as a consumer.
    In any event, whether it’s the goverment that spreads the costs of uninsured individuals or rising insurance rates and health care costs themselves that take care of the costs, we all end up paying. Why not spread that cost across the widest group and bargain for better prices.
    I find it truly sickening that individuals and groups find it necessary to personally attack the Frost’s. They have overcome much adversity and actually qualified for assistance under the present program. I suppose they should have chosen to go bankrupt. (But since they are not Donald Trump or some large corporate entity, bankruptcy won’t offer any protection.)
    All of this handwringing is merely the cackling of would-be Marie Antoinettes: Let them eat cake! And then die so that my taxes are not used to coddle these neer do well slackers.

  27. Slim Tyranny says:

    God you people are sick

  28. Rob Crawford says:

    “Dan Riehl, has it occurred to you that Mr Frost is trying to make a go of a business? And for that you are mocking him? Aren’t right-wingers all pro-business person? Or just successful ones?”
    You might want to make that argument to Hillary. When asked about the effects her health care plan would have on small businesses, she responded “I’m not responsible for under-capitalized businesses”.
    Sounds like she was talking about Frostworks.
    (I wonder if any “journalist” will ever put that quote in front of Hillary and ask her to relate that to this situation.)

  29. Techie says:

    Wow, this touched a nerve. The Libs never thought they’d get called on it. I’ll have to remember that “reporting” = “stalking”.
    Google “Jennifer Bush”. There is nothing new under the sun.

  30. waka waka says:

    This is too rich. From Michele Malkin’s “defense”: “using a single, rotten comment by a stupid RedState commenter to tar all conservative bloggers as hatemongers.”
    And I know the right would never, ever do the same while trying to trash “hate groups” like Media Matters or Daily Kos.

  31. chris says:

    This is great stuff. The deadenders are attacking a family with mentally disabled kids. Good luck in ’08!
    Huckabee/Thompson in 2008!

  32. Techie says:

    Waka, the ones on Kos have the official diaries.

  33. Troll Feeder says:

    Those of you complain that catastrophic insurance is unaffordable for healthy adults and families simply have not looked. High deductible, high copay plans good for major problems are available in the three to very low four figures per year.
    Those of you who complain that no one should have their dreams curtailed by the necessity of providing against risk, and therefore that health risk should be shouldered by society at large
    are sickeningly lacking in self-reliance. Fend for your d*mn selves! You are pathetic!
    Perhaps society has the duty to charitibly provide for the truly destitute or unfortunate. Society has no duty to provide for those who just find providing for themselves inconvenient.

  34. Tom Dissento says:

    “Fend for your d*mn selves!” Excellent public policy… for the fifth century. Is this really the best you can do?
    And regarding the Frosts, my god, why do you people hate Americans so much?

  35. Fred Beloit says:

    Oh my God, the phony soldiers, oops I mean the movie actor with Parkinson’s, wait I mean the attack on Kerry by the swift boat heroes, no I mean Bush is an evil genius or a simpleton, wait I mean Mission Accomplished by the U.S.Navy, oops I mean Bush lied about WMD, oh no I mean Bush dodged the draft by becoming a fighter pilot, no I mean that poor child…what’s his name. Well, it doesn’t matter what the issue is or whether it’s true or false, now does it. As Judge Smails once asked, “Don’t you people have homes?” Of course you do, Kosland where scandals grow like leaves of grass. Home sweet home.

  36. Buddy says:

    Intelius search gives us a little tidbit:
    Wonder how recent those addresses are

  37. jj says:

    As usual, rather than discuss the issue, the liberals take the “emo” route, and demand that any problem, regardless of the severity or common sense of the solution, must be handled by the government.

  38. Slim Tyranny says:

    Buddy, what is wrong with you?
    Get a life.

  39. jj says:

    “Huckabee/Thompson ’08”
    Every once in a while, even a blind hog(chris) finds an acorn. That’s one of those “folksy” statements you like so much, chris. Actually, Mike Huckabee left his Democratic successor with about $1,000,000,000 in surpluses to spend, or to save. Guess which one he did.
    That aside, Huckabee would make a better President than anyone the Democrats have to offer, and is the best of the Republicans as well. He has the proven ablility to get along with Democrats(I know, he has the patience of a saint), and he understands that the extremes accomplish nothing. He is conservative, yet he understands that when you deal with people, you have to be willing to be flexible in some areas. He is a voice of reason and doesn’t have the baggage of some of the front-running Republicans. I know, he is weak on foreign policy, is preachy on preventive health(although the idea is good), and comes across as shallow on some of the issues. Oh, well, I’m sure we will have to hit rock bottom before we look up.(Hello, Hillary)

  40. shingles says:

    Fred Beloit; In other words, one orchestrated episode of faux outrage after another without regard to the facts…and as soon as the “scandal” turns out to be based on nothing, it’s time to move on to the next orchestrated one.
    Exactly which side are you talking about here?

  41. LOL says:

    Isn’t it just amazing how the wingnuts will choose to side with the plutocrat jerks like Bush instead of hard-working middle class families?
    Freaking amazing

  42. LOL says:

    You know, I’ve heard of Someone else Who liked to work with wood and houses, and Who was mocked by the rich and powerful of His time.

  43. seekeronos says:

    Yes, and that Someone had no place to lay His head, but concerned Himself with doing His Father’s work, which was to save the eternal souls of men from an eternity in Hell.
    He did not come to preach about social reform, or setting up Marxist governments (although some old time “Liberation Theologists” would say different).
    The good works of mercy that spring forth from the hearts of regenerated men and women, acts of love (KJV English: Charity) stem from Christ, yes. But our ministry is first to save the lost, and then if building homes and healing the sick are the blessed result of it, God be praised.
    Yet, building homes and healing were never the focus of Jesus’s ministry (or that of the believing Christian). Preaching the Gospel is.
    It was for this reason, that many in those endless multitudes who followed Jesus around looking for a miracle of wine, loaves of bread, or fishes, or healings were disappointed, and left Him when He turned to the much more difficult to receive message of “Forsake all, and follow Me”.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Still here, LOL/other folks? Then consider ye these scriptures: (and THINK about the questions I pose before them whilst reading the Scriptures).
    Q: Why do people look for Jesus to “do signs”, i.e. special miracles ?
    Matt. 16:1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven.
    Matt. 16:2 He answered and said unto them, “When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
    Matt. 16:3 “And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
    Matt. 16:4 “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed. ”
    (Matthew 16:1-4, KJV)
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Q: Why did the multitudes REALLY seek after (but not follow) Jesus?
    Q: What was the work of Jesus Christ – Did He _really_ wish to feed men? If so, HOW?
    John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
    John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
    John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
    John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
    (John 6:26-29, KJV)
    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
    Q: What is the difference between the BELIEVER and UNBELIEVER’S response to Jesus?
    John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
    John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
    John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
    John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
    John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
    John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
    John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
    (John 6:57-69, KJV)
    Jesus worked with wood and houses, and He also taught many things. But if you looked only at the acts, and interpret His teachings through the perverted filter of Marx and Engels… if you miss the gospel of SALVATION behind His ministry, then brothers… you have missed your only boat to escaping this world with your eternal lives.
    Class warfare? The only two classes Jesus preached about were “saved” and “lost”. Sheep, and goats. Sinners, and sinners saved by grace through faith.